Little white lies

[churchman phil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Sometimes what is not said, is as telling as what is......and can actually be more hurtful.
Yes......I have to admit that I have told white lies.......I have told some grey ones too.
I don't have to justify why I have done these things other than to say 'Hey, I am human, and therefore fallible'.......If I am taken to task on the day of judgement(if there is one) then I will answer to the only person that can be my judge.

I think the world would be incredibly harsh if it were not for a white lie or two.

And for the record, I think what we consider as 'white lies' and what the government call white lies, are continents apart.

Agreed.

[MargaretR]

Lie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1. Lying is a perversion of the natural faculty of speech, the natural end of which is to communicate the thoughts of the speaker.
2. When one lies, one undermines trust in society.

The most potent words that Kant ever spoke were on the subject of lying an are embodied at item 2 above.
What Kant means by this is that they way that we judge an action to be moral is to universalise it: If I want to know if telling a lie on a particular occasion is justifiable, I must try to imagine what would happen if everyone was to lie. Kant thinks that any rational being would agree that a world in which there is no lying is preferable to one in which lying was common; in a society in which lying was common no one could trust the word of anyone else.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Margaret, Whatever Kant Says, it is down to ones own natural inclination.
You are to be applauded that you don't tell fibs, lies, untruths.
But sometimes it is necessary to bend the rules of life a little and to tell a lie to be kinder than telling the whole truth.......you can lie by omission as well as by comission.

[churchman phil]

Let's quote Wiki!!!!!!

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Types of lies

The various types of lies include the following:

Fabrication
A fabrication is a lie told when someone submits a statement as truth, without knowing for certain whether or not it actually is true. Although the statement may be possible or plausible, it is not based on fact. Rather, it is something made up, or it is a misrepresentation of the truth. Examples of fabrication: "The dog ate my homework", or "I did unplug the iron".

Bold-faced lie
A bold-faced (often also referred to as bare-faced or bald-faced but have slightly different meanings) lie is one which is told when it is obvious to all concerned that it is a lie. For example, a child who has chocolate all around his mouth and denies that he has eaten any chocolate is a bold-faced liar.
Lying by omission
One lies by omission by omitting an important fact, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. A husband may tell his wife he was out at a store, which is true, but lie by omitting the fact that he also visited his mistress.

Lie-to-children
A lie-to-children is a lie, often a platitude which may use euphemism(s), which is told to make an adult subject acceptable to children. A common example is "The stork brought you" (in reference to childbirth).

White lie
A white lie would cause no discord if it were uncovered, and offers some benefit to the liar, the hearer, or both. White lies are often used to avoid offense, such as complimenting something one finds unattractive. In this case, the lie is told to avoid the harmful realistic implications of the truth. As a concept, it is largely defined by local custom and cannot be clearly separated from other lies with any authority.

Noble lie
A noble lie is one which would normally cause discord if it were uncovered, but which offers some benefit to the liar and assists in an orderly society, therefore potentially beneficial to others. It is often told to maintain law, order and safety. A noble lie usually has the effect of helping an elite maintain power.

Emergency lie
An emergency lie is a strategic lie told when the truth may not be told because, for example, harm to a third party would result. For example, a neighbour might lie to an enraged husband about the whereabouts of his unfaithful wife, because said husband might reasonably be expected to inflict physical injury should he encounter his wife in person. Alternatively, an emergency lie could denote a (temporary) lie told to a second person because of the presence of a third.

Perjury
Perjury is the act of lying or making verifiably false statements on a material matter under oath or affirmation in a court of law, or in any of various sworn statements in writing. Perjury is a crime, because the witness has sworn to tell the truth and, for the credibility of the court to remain intact, witness testimony must be relied on as truthful.

Bluffing
Pretending to have a capability or intention which one does not actually possess. Bluffing is an act of deception which is rarely seen as immoral, because it takes place in the context of a game where this kind of deception is consented to in advance by the players. For instance, a gambler who deceives other players into thinking he has different cards to those which he really holds, or an athlete who indicates he will move left and then actually dodges right, is not considered to be lying. In these situations, deception is accepted and indeed expected as a tactic.

Misleading/Dissembling
A misleading statement is one where there is no outright lie, but there still remains the purpose of making someone believe in an untruth. "Dissembling" likewise implies presenting facts in a way that is literally true, but intentionally misleading.

Exaggeration
An exaggeration (see also hyperbole) occurs when the most fundamental aspect(s) of a statement is true, but only to a certain degree.

Jocose lies
Jocose lies are those which are meant in jest, and are usually understood as such by all present parties. Teasing and sarcasm are examples. A more elaborate instance is seen in storytelling traditions which are present in some places, where the humour comes from the storyteller's insistence that he or she is telling the absolute truth, despite all evidence being to the contrary (i.e. tall tale). There is debate about whether these are "real" lies, and different philosophers hold different views (see below).

Contextual lies
One can state part of the truth out of context, knowing that without complete information, it gives a false impression. Likewise, one can actually state accurate facts, yet deceive with them. To say "yeah, that's right, I slept with your best friend" utilizing a sarcastic, offended tone, may cause the listener to assume the speaker did not mean what he said, when in fact he did.

Promotion lies
Advertisements often contain statements which are incredible, such as "We are always happy to give a refund", or exaggerated predictions such as "You will love our new product".

Puffery
Puffery is an exaggerated claim typically found in advertising and publicity announcements, such as "the highest quality at the lowest price," or "always votes in the best interest of all the people," or "even a jeweler cannot tell it from a genuine diamond."

Blimey!!!! All those types of lies!!!! And you're not guilty of any of them Margaret??

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

you can lie by omission as well as by comission.

So if a friend asks 'does my bum look big in this?' I would tell the truth because she asked for it.

If a friend asks 'do you think I am dying?' would be a dilemma for me, which I have not yet had experience of.

I hope that I could avoid answering if that answer is 'yes', but I would probably search for a way to tell the truth gently

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by churchman phil

Let's quote Wiki!!!!!!



Blimey!!!! All those types of lies!!!! And you're not guilty of any of them Margaret??

I do recall the times I have lied and felt guilt about it.
I recall two lies in the last 18 years and the last one was 7 years ago which was my only way to avoid being subjected to violence.
The one 18 years ago - I lied to protect a friend - then castigated him for putting me in that position.

[churchman phil]

I'd have done the same Margaret.

[MargaretR]

I feel the need to explain my 'abnormal' policy concerning lying.
I had the misfortune to spend 8 years of my life from 1972 to 1980 living with a man who had a personality disorder known as narcissusism.
One of of the manifestations of this was he lied about anything and everything.
When his 'best friend' told me truth of those 8 years of lies, I was aware of the destruction and havoc which had been caused.
I resolved then to always tell the truth, or say nothing at all.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Margaret, I was in that unenviable position.
I assisted Prof Ormerod carry out a brochoscopy on my dear Dad.......it was plain from the results that my father had inoperable, untreatable(apart from palliative care) lung cancer.
Should I then have given this information to my father?....or should I(knowing how he feared this diagnosis) tell him a white lie??
During my Nursing career I have often been in situations where this has been the scenario. I have to say that sometimes I tempered the truth out of compassion.
If that makes me a bad person.......well, I guess I will have to live with it.......but I can say with my hand on my heart I do not regret these actions.

I would not knowingly lie to gain financially/materially, or for that matter to absolve me or cover up something that I had done wrong.

[MargaretR]

When my father was dying of multiple myeloma he had Altzheimers as well so did not have enough brain power left to ask, so I was spared the dilemma.
When my mother was dying of stomach cancer she did not ask because she knew instinctively, but she didn't tell me -wish she had - but then - I didn't ask

[Margaret Pilkington]

It is a very difficult situation to be in.
My father used to ask if I thought he looked better when I visited him.....I used to try and deflect the question by asking him how he felt.....he would say he felt better, so I told him he looked better.
That would make him smile. Those smiles were more precious than pearls........and they stay in my memory.......rewards for the white lies, I guess.

[flashy]

i'm loving this thread, its caused me no end of amusement

[Eric]

The world runs on lies: this is called "politics" (WMDs anyone) ... and many folks worship them: this is called "religion". But politics runs on prejudice, and religion on faith. When you think about it, telling the "whole truth, and nothing but the truth" is darn near impossible, because the information you are acting on might, in itself, be inaccurate or false. Lying to the coppers is ok, because they get paid mega bucks to find out the truth, independent of what you say; and they assume you are lying anyway so you might as well give them what they expect.

Don't think white lies are all that bad ... if they do little harm, and make this difficult life go a little easier. Just don't lie to your lawyer, your shrink, your doctor, or your priest.

If it were not for lies, the truth wouldn't exist.

However, I try to get through this life without resorting to howlers; but if a female friend of mine asked if a certain article of clothing made her ass look big, I would be democratic. Nothing wrong with helping someone feel a little better about herself. Much better than "Ohmygod ... is that your ass, or is it two pigs fighting in a gunny sack"

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by katex

Well, I'll admit it now to cleanse my soul ... I do not make my own yorkshire puddings any more ... get them out of the frozen food compartment at Asda.
Sorry ...

Try Aunt Bessies kate their better than ASDA's own

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

It is a very difficult situation to be in.
My father used to ask if I thought he looked better when I visited him.....I used to try and deflect the question by asking him how he felt.....he would say he felt better, so I told him he looked better.
That would make him smile. Those smiles were more precious than pearls........and they stay in my memory.......rewards for the white lies, I guess.

I agree with you Margaret, I don't think I'd have wanted to tell my father how poorly he was either, sometimes it is better to hide the truth, especially on halth issues