The Internet and Politics?

studentdave · 09-10-2006, 10:12

Hi all,
I'm studying in Sheffield, architecture and planning, currently putting together an essay about the use of the internet in public participation for planning and I was directed to your forum by a colleage who said it was a great way to see an interactive debate about planning and politics. (She was one of the team who put on art installations around 'Accy' during early 2006, there was lots of orange.)
From what I can work out there are some politians and council workers who log on to debate with the public. I'd like to ask what people think of this process? I have one comment, taken from a thread which says 'Glad you could show yourself at last Gayle, It's a pity you could not be straight forward like Graham Jones who gained much respect on this site simply by being honest.'
wondering if people agree? who Graham Jones is? do you feel like the councillors listen to your comments, if not act on them? Would it be better to have more people like this online?
Your responses would be really interesting.

Gayle · 09-10-2006, 21:40

Not quite sure how to answer this but I feel I must since you have brought me into it.

For a start you have to put that quote in context - at the time (and bear in mind this is 18 months ago) I was unaware of this site until it was brought to my attention because there were quite a few people discussing a project that I was involved in (the Panopticon project of which I know you are aware). There was a certain amount of hostility towards me at the time because the project was controversial and I was the public face of it around here. You can understand my reluctance to come onto the site to face the hostility. However, after viewing the site for a couple of weeks I did come on to face the music and I hope, have become accepted because of it.

I am not a politician - I never was - if truth be told I did not have to justify myself in this way. Just as you would not butt into a conversation that someone was having on a bus there was no absolute need for me to butt into this conversation.

If you are a politician however, this is a very effective way of talking to the people of the town but I don't think it should be seen as obligatory. If a politician is comfortable taking this route then that is fine but if not it should not necessarily be seen as a failing if they don't want to.

WillowTheWhisp · 09-10-2006, 21:51

Once she'd stopped telling us off for spelling her name wrong

Gayle turned out to be a worthwhile member of the AccyWeb.

Our local MP is a member of this site too and does pop up from time to time to give us snippets of information - which is nice.

garinda · 10-10-2006, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Our local MP is a member of this site too and does pop up from time to time to give us snippets of information - which is nice.

As does the leader of the Labour group on the council Graham Jones.

Sadly though the Conservative leader of the council Peter Britcliffe, hasn't posted yet, though allegedly he does read it.

Tealeaf · 10-10-2006, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

I am not a politician - I never was - if truth be told I did not have to justify myself in this way. Just as you would not butt into a conversation that someone was having on a bus there was no absolute need for me to butt into this conversation.

Eh? Well, politicians tend to be economical with the truth and sometimes conveniantly forgetful....but I seem to remember a wannabee labour politician standing against The Great Leader in last May's council election. Any idea who that was, Gayle?

WillowTheWhisp · 10-10-2006, 14:20

Well she isn't and she hasn't been but she might have been, given half a chance.

Tealeaf · 10-10-2006, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Well she isn't and she hasn't been but she might have been, given half a chance.

This is not really the forum for political semantics, Willow, but I would have thought than anyone who fought a council seat, as a member of, under the colours of and with the full logistical support of a political party could accuratly be described as a politician, albeit local. The fact that she unfortunatly did not succeed to elected office is neither here nor there. David Cameron and Mingy Cambell do not hold the title of Prime Minister, yet they are politicians, are they not?

WillowTheWhisp · 10-10-2006, 14:35

Yes but are they not MPs?

I've just been arguing with the gas board, I'm in nitpicking mode.

Tealeaf · 10-10-2006, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Yes but are they not MPs?

I've just been arguing with the gas board, I'm in nitpicking mode.

If you're arguing with them, you will be in a bad way; the Gas Board died 20 years ago upon privatisation of the gas supply. Now of course, it is British Gas, which also supply your electricity and clear your drains, if neccessary.

Less · 10-10-2006, 15:06

Quote:

=studentdave]Hi all,
I'm studying in Sheffield, architecture and planning, currently putting together an essay about the use of the internet in public participation for planning and I was directed to your forum by a colleage who said it was a great way to see an interactive debate about planning and politics. (She was one of the team who put on art installations around 'Accy' during early 2006, there was lots of orange.)

So you thought, why waste time thinking about it myself, I'll get this lot to write my essay for me all I have to do then is copy and paste.

Quote:

From what I can work out there are some politians and council workers who log on to debate with the public. I'd like to ask what people think of this process?

The process is wonderful, one person posts something, then someone else posts something, then perhaps the first person or even a third person posts something, the answers given may be haphazard and never follow any form of logic, but the process is perfect.

Quote:

I have one comment, taken from a thread which says 'Glad you could show yourself at last Gayle, It's a pity you could not be straight forward like Graham Jones who gained much respect on this site simply by being honest.'

Perhaps the next time you quote a member, you could save us all alot of time and effort by posting a link to the thread you stole it from then we will have a chance of making sense of it by putting it back in context.

Quote:

wondering if people agree?

Yes sometimes people do agree though sometimes they don't it's called discussion (or possibly argument).

Quote:

who Graham Jones is?

You're the student do some research.

Quote:

do you feel like the councillors listen to your comments,

Not on here but they may read them.

Quote:

Would it be better to have more people like this online?

More people like what online? we are a mixed bag varying from one extreme to the other, agreeing on some things disagreeing on others.

Quote:

Your responses would be really interesting.

There you assume too much I have it on good authority my responses are as dull as ditch water, childish and make no sense at all.

When you finally finish with your learning which I hope will be successful, don't forget about us, all information has a price so when you start work don't just concentrate on paying off your student loan, bung a bit to accyweb as well.

Gayle · 10-10-2006, 15:58

Tealeaf, I think you're being a bit pedantic (no change there then). Ok I stood for council but I wasn't a politician and am still not. I take part in the discussions but I can have no influence over any policies or judgements that are made - I am not in that position of authority/power/whatever you want to call it. My views are valid, as are everyone else's on here.

I am not standing for council again (certainly not in May next year) so I am not even remotely a politician now, even if you want to argue the point that temporarily I was politically inclined.

I should say though, that I am aware of the Sheffield student's work - only vaguely mind! My colleague at MPA is supporting them. This involvement with Accrington has come about directly because of the Panopticon project. When all the bruhaha was going on this time 18 months ago, my colleague visited the university to give a talk about the project. They became interested in Accrington and wanted to use it as a case study, especially as there was resistence to the sculpture and to regeneration in other areas (Project Phoenix, Broadway, the Health Centre, etc). Before you all jump down my throat on this one, take a step outside and look at the way things are portrayed from an outsiders angle and we do appear to reject regeneration. Yes, we say we want improvements but you only have to look at the amount of negativity on this site (mostly justified, I won't argue with you on that) to see what sort of impression it creates.

I didn't come right out and say that I was aware of the project at first because I wasn't 100% sure it was the same thing and I had to check in at the office first. Also, I know very little about it as it's not something that I'm directly related to so please don't ask me any questions about it.

Oh, and finally, I didn't know that I was going to be dragged into this debate and I don't think that the student in question is aware of who I am in relation to the project. In fact, I only answered because I was quoted. I think the quote is in the big Panopticon debate thread that we had or possibly my initial introduction thread. It's certainly early on.

Tealeaf · 10-10-2006, 16:29

I would have thought that if the overall context of this students study was that of opposition to regeneration schemes in certain north west towns, than Accy is no exception. In Liverpool, Darwen, Nelson and Hyndburn there has been huge opposition to Prescott's scheme to demolish large swathes of Victorian housing stock.

The debate that we all had over the Panopticon is a completely seperate issue which rested upon the choice of design (lets face it, they were all rubbish) and the suitability of location. The Coppice was, and is, simply the wrong place to dump a large structure.

There was never, nor has there ever been any argument about the need to rejuvenate certain parts of the town, nor about a bit more art around the place. It has simply been about bureaucratic misjudgements and cock-ups.

Gayle · 10-10-2006, 17:05

I agree that there has never been an argument about the NEED for regeneration but what I'm asking you to do is look at the discussions from an outsiders perspective and it does seem negative. For instance - we agree that Broadway needs rejuvenating but everyone (including myself) is continually having a go at the way it's being done. Add that to the negativity about the Panopticon project and the discussions about project phoenix and you can see how people may get the wrong impression.

Now I can see that it's not the same people arguing against all of the projects but taking things as a whole there does give the appearance of a resistence to change and to regeneration.

garinda · 10-10-2006, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

I agree that there has never been an argument about the NEED for regeneration but what I'm asking you to do is look at the discussions from an outsiders perspective and it does seem negative. For instance - we agree that Broadway needs rejuvenating but everyone (including myself) is continually having a go at the way it's being done. Add that to the negativity about the Panopticon project and the discussions about project phoenix and you can see how people may get the wrong impression.

Now I can see that it's not the same people arguing against all of the projects but taking things as a whole there does give the appearance of a resistence to change and to regeneration.

I think it's individual projects that are, and have been criticised, not regeneration in the area per se.

The Pantopican being the most visible and high profile, and the one that received the most public critisism.

Broadway?

Relatively expensive, shoddily designed and implemented. Very unimaganitive. New design can be good, this was just bad, as well as not having any bearing to it's locality. We, as tax payers have every right to critique it.

Clearing Victorian stone built terraced houses, which in more forward thinking areas of the country are being improved and renovated, and which are seen as an asset, being replaced with inferior new buildings, is in my mind shortsighted. As can be exampled by the demolition of the twenty year old houses at Church. Which coincidentally were built on the site of demolished Victorian terraced houses.

Gayle · 10-10-2006, 19:16

I don't disagree with you Garinda, the things that we've had a go at are justified. I'm just trying to look at it from an outsiders perspective and all of the projects that are concerned with regeneration are knocked - rightly so for the most part - but knocked nevertheless! Collectively it can look like a negative view of regeneration.