Where have all the graves gone? - Page 4

Neil · 18-08-2011, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Wallop, wallop, yeh will get accused of being in the clique, ........see accyweb meet thread from page 7.

Not sure about that clique but there are a few on here in the "how to mess up quoting and post hard to read horrible font posts"

I think I have spent more time fixing this thread than you lot have having a tantrum at each other

Retlaw · 18-08-2011, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Not sure about that clique but there are a few on here in the "how to mess up quoting and post hard to read horrible font posts"

I think I have spent more time fixing this thread than you lot have having a tantrum at each other

Thanks Neil.
Beautifull job, well done, keep up the good work.
Retlaw.

steeljack · 20-08-2011, 07:02

Guess its to be hoped the Grandkids/Greatgrandkids dont bin all the stuff after he's passed on while they are looking for the policys. (sorry for being flipant)
Sorry Retlaw , but who are you doing all this work/research for ? if it's for yourself no problem, in that case stop telling everyone about it and saying everyone else is an 'idiot/fool/amatuer' and treating them with disrespect ......... if your doing it as a service/historical research project for the folks of of Accrington and area don't keep it a locked away like its some Vatican secret , everyone appreciates your work, but be prepared and open enough to other views , disscusion and argument
Just my thoughts and many thanks for your input to earlier enquiries

PS. have no idea about plagerism arguments about the" Accrington Pals /Bill Turner book " mentioned many times on Accy web , just know I have it in my bookcase on my military history shelf

wallop79 · 20-08-2011, 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

Guess its to be hoped the Grandkids/Greatgrandkids dont bin all the stuff after he's passed on while they are looking for the policys. (sorry for being flipant)
Sorry Retlaw , but who are you doing all this work/research for ? if it's for yourself no problem, in that case stop telling everyone about it and saying everyone else is an 'idiot/fool/amatuer' and treating them with disrespect ......... if your doing it as a service/historical research project for the folks of of Accrington and area don't keep it a locked away like its some Vatican secret , everyone appreciates your work, but be prepared and open enough to other views , disscusion and argument
Just my thoughts and many thanks for your input to earlier enquiries

PS. have no idea about plagerism arguments about the" Accrington Pals /Bill Turner book " mentioned many times on Accy web , just know I have it in my bookcase on my military history shelf

Again another who just doesn't get it, how many more times does it have to be said, HE IS DOING THIS FOR HIMSELF & BILL TURNER, what he does with HIS information is HIS business alone, not for the likes of yourself, mikejoey or anyone else to decided, as for the grandkids binning stuff, he's not 2 yet so it'll be me & my sister looking for the policies

steeljack · 25-08-2011, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallop79

Again another who just doesn't get it, how many more times does it have to be said, HE IS DOING THIS FOR HIMSELF & BILL TURNER, what he does with HIS information is HIS business alone, not for the likes of yourself, mikejoey or anyone else to decided, as for the grandkids binning stuff, he's not 2 yet so it'll be me & my sister looking for the policies

sorry it my post came across wrong and flippant , no one has no more respect for 'Retlaw' than myself , he's helped me out in the past with other historical stuff , was just commenting that at times he "seems' to be a bit of a 'curmudgeon' (sp?) really helpful to individual requests , but anything that has to go into the 'public domain' is verboten ,
Once again sorry if I have upset anyone , no offence was intended , just don't get the hostility (bad karma) , the local media refers/quotes to him as a "local Historian '
best regards

hargreavesconnection · 20-05-2015, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikejoed

You really mustn’t be so bombastic in your opinions, Retlaw. It’s one thing to be confident in your own accuracy but to claim everyone else is wrong and you are the only one that’s right is nowt less than sheer arrogance. I am aware of the many hours of research you have put in and even as one who is only just starting out, I can and do appreciate your endeavours. I do, however, think it is not just sheer selfishness but downright criminal that your findings should remain under lock and key. What on earth is the point of all your research if all you want to do with the findings is to lock it away where no future generations can benefit from all your hard work. I am aware that you have been a tremendous assistance to folks who have been researching their family tree. And respect for your reputation as a historian, particularly in the field of the Accrington Pals is of proven repute, as cantankerous as you can be. I just wish you would get down off your high horse for a minute and don’t just read what I am saying but rationalise the evidence with some common sense.

You insist in saying there is no relationship with the Hargreaves at Christchurch but the evidence is there in the stain glass windows. See attached photo. The dedication reads ‘In affectionate remembrance of my father & mother Robert & Louisa Hargreaves of Bank House Accrington – who are buried in this churchyard this window is dedicated by their only surviving daughter Louisa Grace Robertson Aikman’.

R S Crossley’s ‘Accrington Captains of Industry’ is as accurate an account you’ll find anywhere on Accrington’s history. He was respected by and worked closely with Richard Ainsworth, another highly esteemed Accrington historian. Excerpts from Crossley’s book were reproduced in The Observer in 1988. See attached entry about Thomas Hargreaves. Look closely and you will see in the third column a reference to Robert Hargreaves who married Louisa. Now look at the ‘Hargreaves Pedigree’ attachment and you can see under ‘TAB III’ a Robert Hargreaves of Bank House who married Louisa and their third child was ‘Louisa Grace’ who married ‘Colonel Francis Robertson Aikman’. How much more evidence do you need as unequivocal proof of the Hargreaves’ connection with Christchurch?

When I suggested that newspapers were renowned for making errors during the war I was in fact agreeing with you! Doh! However, getting accurate news from the front line back home was no easy task and was invariably subject to inaccuracies. The old adage of ‘Send reinforcements we’re going to advance’ becoming ‘Send three and four pence we’re going to a dance’ was a humorous example of how easy it was for errors to be made when passing on information to and from the front line. And who could blame them in the midst of a heated battle. So, please don’t be so unreasonable with the press when they did get it wrong. I agree it must have been devastating for a family to read of their son’s demise whilst he was still very much alive but crap happens in war.

When it comes to the newspaper article about the re-internments of members of the Hargreaves family in Christchurch, which you refuse to accept as fact, I am left with the quandary of trying to imagine why on earth would the press publish such an article that not only gave accurate names and dates of Hargreaves family members, as you can check against the attached ‘Hargreaves Pedigree’, what sense would such an account make. Are you seriously suggesting they invented the entire episode? I know you have been through the Christchurch records but to imagine they never made errors or omissions is to be more naïve than I can be, and you’ve been at this historical research business for more years than I could ever hope to match. You suggest that Christchurch wasn’t opened until 1841 meaning the contract to reserve grave sites would have to have been made 2 years earlier in 1839. I see no problem with that. When looking for funding of the church building, that is, before building commenced, such contracts would be commonplace by benefactors with the church. And whilst the church may not have opened its doors until 1841, work on building it may well have started two years earlier. It was a huge project and without the machinery available to today’s builders. I will look into this more thoroughly and report back to you, Retlaw. Unlike you, I believe that history belongs to everyone and our findings should be shared. Not everyone who has a deep interest in our local history has the time, perhaps not even the wisdom, to carry out the research that you have been privileged to successfully do.

I am currently preparing to interview a couple of Accrington’s senior citizens. One is 96 and the other is just 76. Both are absolute treasure chests of memories about Accrington and I am looking forward to the amazing privilege of recording their reminiscences on DVD so that future generations can learn about the life and times of Accrington folks in times gone by. You would be an ideal candidate for such a project, Retlaw, if it weren’t for the fact that you would rather selfishly keep your knowledge to yourself

I am currently doing research on the Hargreaves. Would you be please kind as to forward the newspaper articles about their re-interments at Christchurch?

Jodie

hargreavesconnection · 20-05-2015, 22:41

I did find the newspaper article I inquired about. I have another question - is St. James Church still standing?

Atarah · 21-05-2015, 06:16

St James most certainly is still standing, in the centre of our town, across from Accrington Library.

Accyexplorer · 21-05-2015, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by hargreavesconnection

I have another question - is St. James Church still standing?

Yes

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...rch-66516.html

hargreavesconnection · 21-05-2015, 12:14

Thank you.

I am visiting the UK for my annual visit and this time focusing on Accrington area for a little part of it getting grave and church photos.

Jonathan Hargreaves (son of Thomas and Nancy) married Anna Maria Harland, my ggg grandmother's niece. Of course, their son went on to marry Alice Liddell.

I am hoping both Christ Church and St James will be open during the day.

I understand Arden House was demolished but have been informed some of the ruins remain. Any one know how to get to these so I can photograph or is it on private property?

Thanks!
Jodie

Atarah · 21-05-2015, 13:38

Christ Church and St James still exist of course, although Christ Church is not the church it once was. Now known as Trinity Community Church. I believe all the stained glass windows are still intact although there may be a "new floor" separating a clear view of the windows (installed when a child's nursery was opened upstairs in the church). If you cant get a clear view, I have a copy of the windows (which a local photographer Garth Dawson took many years back). The ruins of Arden Hall? Not very many are left I am afraid. The churches, I imagine, you would have to make contact with the vicars, although I do know the email for the lovely new vicar of St James (who I am pleased to say, appears to be very interested in family/local history).
There are also many cuttings in Accrington Library regarding Reginald Hargreaves and his marriage to Alice Liddell. Oak Hill Park, which he sold to Accrington Corporation , I am pleased to say is still in existence.
The "ruins" (and they ARE ruins) of Arden Hall can easily be seen, but you will need a vivid imagination!

hargreavesconnection · 21-05-2015, 15:14

Thank you for that information. If you could provide directions to the Arden House ruins, that would help.

Is Bank House still standing?

Jodie

Atarah · 21-05-2015, 17:21

Hi - Bank House went many years ago c1952. In 1953 new property opened on the site, known as Queen Elizabeth Crescent, but some of the old walls are still standing. Many photos exist - call in Accrington Library on your visit.
Here is a photo of Arden Hall, will help you visit the site if you like when you come over.

hargreavesconnection · 21-05-2015, 17:42

Great! I look forward to meeting you. Had I known all this about Accrington when I visited Oak Hill in 2012, I would've spent more time in the area! I come over every year to bike the Ride n Stride. I feel it is important to do something for the churches as they are a wealth of history and information!

Jodie

Thanks for the photo!

Bob Dobson · 21-05-2015, 19:12

Jodie -don't call in the library without first telling the staff - [email protected]- you are coming. John will get stuff out for you to look at. Please make sure that he retains your address, as so often questions arise about the family, and you may be the one able to answer them. It would be most useful to have a pedigree chart in the library. I am researching street names - so many of them have a Hargreaves connection. Some years ago, I bid on some plans showing Hargreaves-owned land in the town, but I didn't bid enough and now kick myself.