Cronshaw/Dean

[Sue1]

I am a new member and I thought there must be someone out there in Accrington who may know who the following people are/were. They were my relatives that I never knew!

My father was Joseph Cronshaw Dean b 1900 at 62 Sultan Street, Accrington. He died in 1974 in Brighton, Sussex. I would love to know of his life before 1941 in Accrington. He was in the RNAS in WWI and in WWI he was in the RAF stationed at Manby in Lincolnshire.

His wife was Martha Davies b 1902 whom he married in 1921 - his son Joseph J Dean was born in 1921 - I don't know the address they were living at after they married

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The Ancestors were:

Jonathan Cronshaw - b 1825. In 1881 when he was 56 he was living at 188 Plantation Mills Cottage. He was a colour mixer.

Sarah Cronshaw - b 1861. In 1881 when she was 20, she was living with her father at the above address. No mother is mentioned ?deceased or away for the night. She is a daughter of the house and described as a "Housekeeper".

William Cronshaw - b 1864. Living at the above address in 1881, he was a Bench Marker. (What is a Bench Marker?)

I have no idea if this is the total number for this family (apart from wife wherever she is) - this is all that is on the 1881 census.

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Next door is the next generation at 189 Plantation Mills Cottages. (Does anyone have a photo of Plantation Mill and the Cottages please.

Christopher Cronshaw - b 1846 - worked in the Print Lab

Sarah Ellen Cronshaw - b 1846 - a Cotton Weaver

Susan Anne Cronshaw - b 1870 - aged 11 in 1881 and a schoolchild (MY GRANDMOTHER)

Mary Jane Cronshaw - b 1868 - aged 9 in 1881

Sarah Elizabeth Cronshaw - b 1866 - aged 7 in 1881

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In 1887 SUSAN CRONSHAW married JOSEPH DEAN on 26th December (Boxing Day) in 1887 at St. James Church, Accrington. She was 18 and he was 19. I don't know where they lived after the wedding but prior to the wedding he lived at 7 Ellison Street (his father was David Dean a Weaver - who lived at 12 Milraker Lane, Acc and was married to Bridget a Cotton Weaver who was b 1844) and she l (Susan) lived at 12 Mill Street (her father was Christopher Dean (above - and he was now a labourer). HAD THE MILLS CLOSED BY THEN?
The Vicar at the wedding who married them was John Procter Petty. The witnesses were AMOS STOREY and MARGARET ALICE MILLS.

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SUSAN CRONSHAW DEAN AND JOSEPH DEAN went on to have a few children:

HILDA - age 4 in 1901
WALTER - age 9 in 1901
ALICE MABEL - age 13 in 1901
JOSEPH CRONSHAW - age under 1 year in 1901 (MY FATHER)

Anyone who could furnish me wish any details, photos, anecdotes, gossip etc about any of the above, or where they lived, I would be eternally grateful to. PLEASE HELP IF YOU CAN - MY LAST ATTEMPT AT FINDING OUT ABOUT MY ELUSIVE RELATIVES.

Sue Cassidy (ancient new member)

[Atarah]

Here is a photo of the cottages your ancestors must have lived in i.e. Plantation Square, photo taken c1943. An old cobbled road (still there today) led from the cottages to the works where they were most probably employed - Plantation Mill Printworks.
Pensioners bungalows are now built on the site of the cottages

[Sue1]

Originally Posted by Atarah

Here is a photo of the cottages your ancestors must have lived in i.e. Plantation Square, photo taken c1943. An old cobbled road (still there today) led from the cottages to the works where they were most probably employed - Plantation Mill Printworks.
Pensioners bungalows are now built on the site of the cottages

Many thanks Atarah - not sure I would have liked to live there - perhaps they were new in 1881! I am very grateful for your feedback.

Sue 1

[ossy kid]

Hi Sue, I checked a few records and here is some info- Jonathan born 17-April- 1824, christened 9-May-1824 at New Jerusalem Abbey St Accrington. Died 20-March-1907 buried at Burnley Rd. cemetery. He married Jane Wigglesworth in 1855 in Accrington, she was born in 1825 and died in 1880, that,s why you cant find her in the 1881 census. I,ll get back to you as I find more info. Bryan.

[Sue1]

Dear Ossie,

Thank you so much for looking this up for me. What is the New Jerusalemite Abbey - sounds Jewish and yet it doesn't - would it be a workhouse by any chance. Waiting with baited breath for more.

Sue 1

[ossy kid]

Sue, the church is New Jerusalem on Abbey St. Pull up Accrington churches for a picture and history. The church today is new but there is also a picture of the old church. Re your gt grandad Christopher he married Sarah Ellen Sutcliffe in 1867, they also had two more children, John Sanderson born 1888 and Isabella born 1890. Still digging, Bryan.

[ossy kid]

Sorry Sue, that should read John Sanderson born 1878 and Isabella born 1880.

[Sue1]

Bryan, Many thanks again - delighted to have Sarah Ellen's maiden name.
The dates you sent me in your first E-mail about Jonathan have raised a few questions i.e. Jonathan Cronshaw b 1824 married Jane Wigglesworth b 1825 in 1855. The person I thought was their first child, Christopher, was born in 1846! The other children I have found are Sarah - b 1861 and William - b 1864 which is rather a big gap for those days. I am wondering whether it was a second marriage for Jonathan when he married Jane Wigglesworth? It is possible, of course, that Christopher is not their child - I am confused. When I started all of this in May this year I thought Cronshaw would be easy because it was an unusual name - I now know it is not, at least in Accrington and its surrounds.

Thanks for the clarification about the New Jerusalem!

Delighted to hear you are still "digging". Sue C

[ossy kid]

Hi again Sue, a little more for your tree.- Jonathan,s parents were; John and Ann. John born-1797; died-25.November.1865- Ann born-1802; died-11.October.1867 both buried at Burnley Rd cemetery Accrington. My advice to you now is to send for Christophers marriage certificate. They are available at FamilyRecords.gov.uk | Home the cost is 7 pounds. Bryan.

[Sue1]

Hi Bryan, You really are amazing - where are you getting all this info from. I know I am not very computer literate (never used the internet until May) but I ought to have been able to find more than I did. My sister has been trying as well.!

I will apply for Jonathan's marriage cert - we should get his father's, and maybe his mother's, name from that, although, that far back I am not sure they put his wife's parents on (certainly in the 1840's the wife's father was the only one on the marriage cert - not that it matters too much, only out of interest, because Cronshaw is the direct line down to Susan Ann b 1870.

You suggested I pull up Accrington Churches to get a picture of the New Jerusalem on Abbey Street - did you mean on Accyweb (because I can't find one). I did print one from another website where, what looked like an extremely impressive gothic building was visible above what it said was the Swan Pub. Was it C of E - the Cronshaws all seem to have been C of E so far.

Incidentally, I found a website which I think was called Lancashire Parish Council and the marriage registers for some of the Churches are on line up to about 1798 was the latest - not sure how complete they are - I also noticed the name Cronshaw may have become Cronkshaw/Cronkshey and Cronkshai - I read somewhere once that, particularly with christenings it often depended on the blood alcohol level of the probably illiterate proud father, the Vicar's hearing, the local accent and also probably the Vicar's alcohol level! Spelling was frequently phonetic and not consistent. I understand if you go back even further you will probably need a latin course - I imagine this is for probate documents etc. I don't think my sister and I are going to make it that far on our own present showing.

Seriously thinking of making a visit to Accrington with my husband and possibly sister, next Summer - it seems only right we should take a look at the town from where so many of our ancestors came.

I believe the house where Joseph Cronshaw Dean was born - 62 Sultan Street, Accrington, may still stand!

Many thanks yet again - my sunken spirits have risen amazingly since you responded.

Sue C

[ossy kid]

It,s a pleasure sue, it,s just a hobby but I,ve been doing it for about 15 years. 62 Sultan St is still there, or was last time I looked. I actually lived in Plantation St. during the late 50s, early 60s so am very familiar with the area which was Plantation Mill. I,m still digging but my spade is getting a bit blunt!! Bryan.

[Sue1]

Delighted to hear you know the area so well - I have a picture of plantation mill cottages taken about 1905 I believe. In 1881 my family were living there. They look really awful in 1905 but I imagine that long ago people were glad to have a roof over their heads and I notice they seem to move about a lot - presumably work and the fact people didn't/couldn't afford houses that long ago.

Looked up the form for applying for marriage cert for Christopher's marriage cert. It seems to ask for more exact information than I actually have but will give it a try.

My sister and I have had phenomenal success with the other side of the family, i.e. maternal. We have even found a war hero (one GC now in the family). The regimental war diary makes sad reading. We spent four days at the archives at Kew and sadly, my maternal grandfather's records seem to be among the burnt series. However, on the off chance I contacted the Imperial War Museum and they have quite a substantial file on him with photos etc! We are visiting early January and hope they will let us copy the file. Maternal grandfather was a career serviceman in the Royal Marine Light Infantry - that was fascinating research - we now have his service record. Fortunately the census is done separately for individual naval barracks and he was in port for the 1881 census. He eventually had 11 children - sounds as though he didn't go away to sea for long periods. Research into him is ongoing as when he left the RMLI he worked as a Constable, Central Marker(t) and I suspect he was a Ranger in Epping Forest - he was a horseman anyway - but awaiting a reply from Essex to find out more about him.

Genealogy is quite addictive, although I am realising more and more that no matter how much you find out about your predecessors you will really never know "them". My husband may be developing the bug also but his research will be more difficult as it is 100% Irish but part will be in the NI part after that became a province, plus a lot of records were burnt but just this morning I discovered a lot of Irish research can actually be done from Kew! Pity we no longer live in Sussex (have only just moved up here).

One thing I thought I might do is volunteer to do is help "on line" to translate records for the free BMD project but I think that will be in the future.

Incidentally, I had a long "browse" last night after receiving your information that Jonathan's parents were John and Ann. I don't have full access as I am not a member but can get some info from the site. Found some hopefuls there but on the Mormon site (which I am told is very inaccurate!) I have found about 7 children of an Ann and John, all baptised at Abbey St New Jerusalem (except one who was "done" at the Weslyan chapel!") - its all a bit of a guess at the moment but two names recurred among the children which are a bit unusual - one was Sanderson and the other Isabella - in fact two of the children were called Isabella but I suspect one died in infancy. One even had the first name Tattersal (I thought that was something to do with horse racing). I had been checking to see if Ann's maiden name was Sanderson but that was an impossible route - hundreds of them.

Best wishes, Sue (and thanks for continuing to "dig")

[ossy kid]

Hi Sue, here,s a map of Plantation square where I think your family lived, go to Lancashire County Council: Environment Directorate: Old Maps scan down to Accrington and Church put your pointer above the o in Accrington and click, when the map comes up, click above the cc in Accrington and the square which comes up on the enlarged map next to St Pauls is Plantation square, the same one you have the photo of. Clear as mud I know, hope it works.

[Sue1]

Many thanks for the map - that is quite enlightening - did I see the abbatoir close by! Am going to have a closer look at it this evening. A picture is worth a thousand words they say!

Out of the blue (and related to the maternal side of the family) I had a call from the BBC! Fame at last - I am being interviewed (telephone) at 7.30 and 8.30 tomorrow morning (the first interview is Cambridge BBC, the second interview is for Fenland BBC I think). Shame its so early - I am not a morning person and will probably babble incoherently at that time of the day. Have appointed my husband as my production assistant! and I now charge for autographs. Delusions of grandeur of course - I think its something to do with either ancestry.co or Who do you really think you are but the current programme is really to encourage the very many people (contrary to what I have read recently) who want to research their families, especially now the internet is so available, to, this Christmas, when families are together, quiz the older members of the family about ancestors etc (personally I'd give them a stiff drink - I'm sure they would spill the family "beans) then). I suppose what they are really saying is "its too late when they're dead".

Sue

[Sue1]

Have now had a good look at the map with my husband - what a mass of housing round the Mills. We couldn't see Plantation Mill anywhere and I was surprised to see the little square of Plantation Mill cottages looked so small because my family lived at 188 and 189 and I am sure there aren't that many houses there. Looking left at the map and going down Plantation Road you come to Abbey Street and turning left into Abbey Street, further down on the left is a church set back beside a pub which I assume is the Swan pub (or used to be) and the Church is the New Jersalem which was.

Whilst looking at this my husband mentioned Accrington Stanley which he thought, off the top of his head, had gone backrupt in the 50's and had now very recently, got back into the league ............ he likes football!

Sue