£10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses - Page 17

BERNADETTE · 31-05-2009, 17:39

Margaret you forgot the couple both claiming the second home allowance, do they have a second home each? I agree that yes the rules were at fault but there can be no excuses for this people bleeding the country dry whilst a hell of a lot of the population are really struggling. It is disgusting!!!!

jaysay · 31-05-2009, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

Margaret you forgot the couple both claiming the second home allowance, do they have a second home each? I agree that yes the rules were at fault but there can be no excuses for this people bleeding the country dry whilst a hell of a lot of the population are really struggling. It is disgusting!!!!

I think that point in question shows just where these rules are shown up for what they are, a married couple both claiming second home allowances is crass to say the least, the fact at MPs use these rules to claim is immaterial really, if under any rules people will claim what they are entitled whether it be as a business man or an MP, but in the MPs case they are using tax payers money, and quite clearly the rules as set down are way of beam

garinda · 31-05-2009, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

I think that point in question shows just where these rules are shown up for what they are, a married couple both claiming second home allowances is crass to say the least, the fact at MPs use these rules to claim is immaterial really, if under any rules people will claim what they are entitled whether it be as a business man or an MP, but in the MPs case they are using tax payers money, and quite clearly the rules as set down are way of beam

The expense system is flawed, and open to abuse, as we've witnessed, but let's not forget this is the system voted in place by the very politicans who have used it.

Let's also not forget that the majority of MPs have fought tooth and nail from their expenses being made public, under the ludicrous claim that it would be a threat to their security.

Some of what's gone on isn't just morally questionable, it's legally questionable fraud.

On the point that everyone would milk the system, given the flawed nature of the system, and human greed.

Some would, some wouldn't.

You can't put through an claim for 'integrity'.

Happily for me I know, and have known, many people who would never claim for anything they weren't entitled to, because they would consider it stealing.

If the system's flawed change it.

Don't apologise for it, after it's been made public.

There are still a few politicans who deserve the courtesy title 'The Right Honourable Member', and happily the MP for Hyndburn appears to be one of them.

garinda · 31-05-2009, 18:16

The only threat to their security, if their expenses were made public, would be that some would be tarred and feathered.

jaysay · 31-05-2009, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

The expense system is flawed, and open to abuse, as we've witnessed, but let's not forget this is the system voted in place by the very politicans who have used it.

Let's also not forget that the majority of MPs have fought tooth and nail from their expenses being made public, under the ludicrous claim that it would be a threat to their security.

Some of what's gone on isn't just morally questionable, it's legally questionable fraud.

On the point that everyone would milk the system, given the flawed nature of the system, and human greed.

Some would, some wouldn't.

You can't put through an claim for 'integrity'.

Happily for me I know, and have known, many people who would never claim for anything they weren't entitled to, because they would consider it stealing.

If the system's flawed change it.

Don't apologise for it, after it's been made public.

There are still a few politicians who deserve the courtesy title 'The Right Honourable Member', and happily the MP for Hyndburn appears to be one of them.

I don't have a problem with anything you've said Rindi, no right minded person would, but as you say not all MPs should be tarred with the same brush there are still some honourable members, but I'm not sure how many

garinda · 31-05-2009, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

I don't have a problem with anything you've said Rindi, no right minded person would, but as you say not all MPs should be tarred with the same brush there are still some honourable members, but I'm not sure how many

I heard yesterday that the Telegraph are only a third of the way through drip feeding the story.

Bernard Dawson · 31-05-2009, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Yes, Gayle, the rules are wrong...but in the Green Book it is supposed to state that the expense has to be 'solely in the pursuit of the responsibilities as an MP'.
How on earth is a Duck House, Moat cleaning, hanging baskets etc etc relevant in relation to their duties at Westminster?
And what about the 'flipping' where they claim first for one house and then 'flip' to another so that they can claim for things on that house too.
It is indefensible. I have never had much trust in the people who run the country, but this has been the last straw.
Are there any poor ex-MP's?

There are some poor Councillors though Margaret. I can speak with some authorty on that.

Margaret Pilkington · 31-05-2009, 19:09

This scandal has called into question the integrity of all MP's.......casting doubt on everyone.

The more we hear of it the worse it seems to get........all of these MP's who have been shown up as fraudulent claimers should be made by their own party leader to quit now.........this would force a number of By-Elections, giving the people the power to vote in someone who they feel can better represent them.......and if Gordon Brown is serious about changes to the constitution then he had better be quick and get them on the statute books, because I'm sure the majority of us doubt his veracity.

Margaret Pilkington · 31-05-2009, 19:14

Bernard, that is another subject altogether.

Oh, I see now, you mean financially poor councillors.....I was on completely the wrong track there for a minute.

While I do not believe that politicians should become poorer as a result of the pursuit of their duties, I do not think that they should see the tax payer as a cash cow, and someone who will pay up to feather their nests.
I don't think they realise the level of unrest this situation has created, and that is because a lot of them are far removed from the realities that the rest of us grapple with on a daily basis.

They should be made to live on a basic pension, or invalidity benefit for a few weeks and then they would find it easy to live off their salaries.

katex · 31-05-2009, 19:24

The irony is that journalists are the worst for fiddling expenses.

I don't see what is wrong about claiming for plasma tellies, gardening, cleaners and food (yes, allowed) etc., for their second home .. just that they were stupid in setting it against their 'main' home.

Still say, the majority of the public are not whiter than white, and have all cheated the system at some stage when given the chance, albeit in smaller ways.

Bernard Dawson · 31-05-2009, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Bernard, that is another subject altogether.

Oh, I see now, you mean financially poor councillors.....I was on completely the wrong track there for a minute.

While I do not believe that politicians should become poorer as a result of the pursuit of their duties, I do not think that they should see the tax payer as a cash cow, and someone who will pay up to feather their nests.
I don't think they realise the level of unrest this situation has created, and that is because a lot of them are far removed from the realities that the rest of us grapple with on a daily basis.

They should be made to live on a basic pension, or invalidity benefit for a few weeks and then they would find it easy to live off their salaries.

I Don't disagree with a lot you say. Although I am sure you would agree it's not all M.Ps who have been abusing the system.

One of the most disturbing aspects is that some M.Ps who have clearly been abusing the system, don't accept that they might just have been doing something wrong.

Margaret Pilkington · 31-05-2009, 19:30

Kate, the journalists are not paid out of the public purse and if they were caught they would at least be dealt with justly, by being deprived of their job....they would not be able to sit tight and wait for a golden goodbye and a fat pension.

I think I have said all that I can say on this subject, so I feel that I cannot post anything more salient to this thread.

BERNADETTE · 31-05-2009, 19:48

It never ceases to amaze me that because it was "within the rules" some people think it is alright. Sorry it is morally wrong IMHO!!!

Benipete · 31-05-2009, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

It never ceases to amaze me that because it was "within the rules" some people think it is alright. Sorry it is morally wrong IMHO!!!

Well it seems to me that i don't need a set of rules to know what is right or wrong and if these people do then they should not be in the position that they are.

Neil · 31-05-2009, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

Kate I really don't know how you can think that the "within the rules" moan can ever be justified. MP's are on a more than decent wage as it is without screwing this country for every last penny they can get........Maybe our NHS could have benefited a lot more if it weren't for their pure greed

Within the rules is why it is not fraud. Those who are outside the rules or who have submitted false expenses should be held accountable. The rules may not be right, that is the main issue I have with all this.

Just how much money are MP's on anyway?

Please don't bring the NHS into this. That monster will waste more money than all the MP's expenses put together.