10 year old drowns

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by firefighter753

Its a pleasure. It really annoys me when parents look for scapegoats and other people to blame , when they really need to ask themselves why were my children looking for tadpoles at the edge of a pond unsupervised.

Well said !!

[lindsay ormerod]

I am a nervous swimmer, in no way confident, I can just about save my own life. You have to be confident of your own ability before attempting to rescue someone else; as I understand it the PCSOs arrived after the boy had gone under; ;to be quite honest I don't think I would have gone in either. (awaits brickbats)

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by firefighter753

I think people should get their facts right before they start calling people thick and stupid. The officers involved did not stand and watch a little boy thrashing around on the surface drowning if he had of been I am sure they would of gone in and helped this child. A call was given to the police when this boy and sister got into difficulty, two fishermen helped the little girl (they did not enter the water they held there fishing rods out so she could grab them and pulled her into the side)to safety but the little boy had gone under and was missing underwater by the time these officers had arrived, after the wrong address was given by the initial caller.


BBC News | UK | Sadness at failed lake rescue

To call these people thick and stupid is outragous, and they are probably at home with there families feeling absolutely terrible that they could not have got there sooner and got the little boy out whilst he was struggling on the surface.
You are a hero to swim out and drag a child or anyone in distress back to the shore and save there life.
But to enter a lake or pond when there is no sign of the casualty and dive down to unknown depths and hazzards without the correct equipment then you are thick and stupid.

Cut these officers some slack enough people have died entering water to find bodies without the correct equipment it is nothing to law suits etc its common sense.

Ok firefighter.. I was reacting to the original thread.

Spuggie quote--Just heard on the news that a 10 year old kid drowned in a pond while two police community support officers stoud by and let it happen. The excuse given was that they were not trained for this kind of incident. What happened to human instinct are they banned from using it? It is sickening that the stood and let it happen. They should be charged for criminal negligence at least---unquote

I admit I did not know the facts of the incident, and thank you for revealing them.. but perhaps you should aim your frustration at the initial poster of the thread!!!!

[Margaret Pilkington]

No, i think if you have any doubt about your own ability to help, then you should stay out of the water...although there are things you can do...like looking for a branch to hold out to the person in difficulty...but make sure your own footing is safe and firm. I once saved my brother from drowning in a local lodge by using a thick branch...i held it out to him and he grabbed hold and I was able to pull him out of the water. I still got a good hiding as we were not allowed down at the lodge without a grown up.

Children rarely see the dangers and water is a real magnet ......maybe he should not have been playing there in the first place.

[lindsay ormerod]

Exactly ! People don't read the whole story; they look at the headline and seize it.
Admittedly the young lad's family will be feeling like their world has ended but who is initially to blame? Certainly not the emergency services and the PCSOs who turned up to help, no one stood around being useless while the lad drowned; he had already drowned by the time they PCSO'S had got there.
Maybe if they had got him out earlier he might have survived; no one knows.
Lesson to be learnt is don't let your kids play near a 6 foot deep pond.

[SPUGGIE J]

Originally Posted by Mancie

Ok firefighter.. I was reacting to the original thread.

Spuggie quote--Just heard on the news that a 10 year old kid drowned in a pond while two police community support officers stoud by and let it happen. The excuse given was that they were not trained for this kind of incident. What happened to human instinct are they banned from using it? It is sickening that the stood and let it happen. They should be charged for criminal negligence at least---unquote

I admit I did not know the facts of the incident, and thank you for revealing them.. but perhaps you should aim your frustration at the initial poster of the thread!!!!

Well someone want to tell me why the 13:00 NEWS which I heard it from originally broadcast it wrong then? I have no problem with taking the heat by the by and it may be justified but how many read the article plus the archive ones there as well.

[lindsay ormerod]

The article on Sky News says the lad had gone when the pcsos turned up.

[firefighter753]

I admit I did not know the facts of the incident, and thank you for revealing them.. but perhaps you should aim your frustration at the initial poster of the thread!!!!

Point taken Mancie, although my post wasn't intended just to single out one person it was aimed at the thread as a whole including the original post, I think that the original post and the follow ups have been the victims of bad and inaccurate press.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Stanleymad

Actually its because of duty of care that they didnt, in law precidence has already been set where someone doing a good deed like saving someone actually was done criminally for duty of care even though they only tried to save someone. Legally u help or try to get involved & it doesn't go right or failure, the basic human instinct to help can become a criminal act - stangely, because u take the responsiblity for it.

Something i learnt in law about this type of thing in the duty of care legality. CSO's or any persons employed would be warned about taking something on without training or permission for this reason, so hence why could be deemed sackable.

So what is the point of learning First Aid? None at all as far as I can see if you then use it to save someone and become a criminal for having done so.

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Well someone want to tell me why the 13:00 NEWS which I heard it from originally broadcast it wrong then? I have no problem with taking the heat by the by and it may be justified but how many read the article plus the archive ones there as well.

I watched the story on Granada Reports at about the same time Spuggie and the reporter certainly told it as if the lad was there and clearly visible and the two CSOs just ignored his cries for help.

[katex]

Very sad case .. the poor parents.

Think at least this thread has given us some useful information and advice from professionals and from the experiences of other members, so think the thread has turned out to be very helpful indeed, particularly as I live on the edge of a lodge and children come down fairly regularly to investigate the mysteries this water holds.

[SPUGGIE J]

I have had the the experience of being the one dragged out and that was bad enough. Because of what I went through and felt I would try my damdest to get the person out. The thing is all water is not easy to access for the emergency services and I was at a few when younger. There are pro's and con's over what to do and may be person that see's and must make a split second decision.

[Stanleymad]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

So what is the point of learning First Aid? None at all as far as I can see if you then use it to save someone and become a criminal for having done so.

U mis-understood willow, those who are not trained by 1st ad professionals like st johns ambulance etc shouldn't technically be giving any sort of 1st aid unless instructed to do so in cases via the 999 service or by advice of medical professional - whom then they assume the duty of care then on your behalf. If u do so by taking action in anyway will resume the duty of care whether trained or not - the difference will come down to whether u hold a 1st aiders certificate or backing by said medcal professional SHOULD any type court or hearing be involved in accident cases & then whether that was followed properly & the actions were appropiate to the causation or not. Anyone can be done for failure of duty of care even medical professionals if things go wrong that they could or should of prevented, hence why u have to sign permission for ops & the like. Duty of care issue is a complex thing that questions morality.

Im mearely talking legallly here not morally, the have a go hero risks a lot as well as gains the heroic gesture depending if all goes well or problem arises in doing so, i'll have to dig around for cases from our tutoring, it was quite a shock & questionable even to those studying it - never mind owt else lol.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes, I recall having lectures from a legal expert and it was very scary.
As a nurse I would be VERY wary about helping out at any incident...aminly because if things went wrong I could be sued personally.....so while I would like to help out from the moral standpoint, doing so could have very serious legal implications for me.

[WillowTheWhisp]

So it's hardly surprising then when people see someone collapsed in the street, or an epileptic choking or something that they just walk on by and leave them to their fate.

We had someone come round to our church once to show us how to resuscitate a person with all that thumping on the chest and doing mouth to mouth but I suppose that's a no-no now in case you break a rib or something.

I don't think the 'have a go heroes' do what they do just so they can be hailed as heroes. I think it's a natural instinct to try to help. Must be very difficult to curb that instinct and not help someone.

That could explain why a doctor in another thread on here refused to go and help someone who wasn't his patient.

It may be the correct legal thing to do but it doesn't really sound like the correct moral thing to do. What a sad state of affairs we are in.

[Margaret Pilkington]

You are right Willow...it is a very sad (legal) state of affairs.