1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

Maybe you would prefer it if all companies were nationalised.

Aye C'mon ! We've been there, seen that, read the book & got the T-Shirt ! Aye, the Socialist idyll, a land of milk & honey, free beer for all & we're all equals, brothers & sisters united, until it comes to emptying the she-ite pit out ! Or doing some hard manual graft ! Then the truth comes out, there will always be a divided society no matter how much it may be wished otherwise.

If Socialism is such a perfect & wonderful condition why aren't there any democracies pursuing this option ? I ask you, can you name me a truly happy & functioning Socialist Country that works ? Bearing in mind the above comments. I think you'd be hard pushed.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

dont think british workers are lazy the reason why british companies dont get contracts because previous goverments all the way abck to thatcher didnt give consistent support for manufacturing like succesive german goverments have,they have subsidies or invested in manufacturing companies like the motor trade while britain has declined .germany kept all its research centres open not like britain who slashed them in the early nineties.The stock market and private equity is not as important in Germany as it has been in the US and the UK and a large element of the corporate funding required in Germany is delivered through the banking system which means more money is invested in the company than go to the shareholder German employees enjoy a high rate of pay and a high level of job security which seems to be part of the national culture. In times of stress German companies will try to use work-sharing (kuzarbeit) rather than making significant job cuts which in turn helps maintain loyalty and all important skills within the workforce. Union influence is still significant within the private sector in Germany and in larger companies half of all seats on supervisory boards are reserved for employee representatives - and through this the workforce enjoys considerable veto power. However, the workforce appears to exercise their power responsibly and have been a key part of the success of the sector.so there goes your myth of the lazy british worker as most companies now use agency staff which does,nt exactly motivate the workers.It is no wonder that the current UK government (and to be fair the last government) has concluded that having a strong manufacturing sector is a good idea. The manufacturing framework concept gave the Government a great opportunity to clearly establish its support for the sector and give guidance on how it would provide the framework to help support the long term success of UK manufacturing. Therefore the delay and cancellation of the manufacturing framework was a disappointment.Developing the UK manufacturing sector in future years will not be easy and many commentators consider that the damage of the last 50 years has been too deep to reverse, particularly in the face of ever increasing competition. Unfortunately this may be true. But we must be able to build on the excellent companies and skills that we have in UK manufacturing to maintain a vibrant sector that has a key role in the UK economy and what might end up being a niche place in the world manufacturing economy. In my view this will mean that government understands that it does have an important role to play in establishing a framework for the success of manufacturing in the UK, sending manufacturing orders abroad doesnt help.

Bloody hell where did you cut and paste that from

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Aye C'mon ! We've been there, seen that, read the book & got the T-Shirt ! Aye, the Socialist idyll, a land of milk & honey, free beer for all & we're all equals, brothers & sisters united, until it comes to emptying the she-ate pit out ! Or doing some hard manual graft ! Then the truth comes out, there will always be a divided society no matter how much it may be wished otherwise.

If Socialism is such a perfect & wonderful condition why aren't there any democracies pursuing this option ? I ask you, can you name me a truly happy & functioning Socialist Country that works ? Bearing in mind the above comments. I think you'd be hard pushed.

He find some to cut and paste Dave, he sure as hell ain't got the nous to think of it all by his lonesome

[cmonstanley]

thats what went wrong the shareholder taking the profit the bare minimium being invested back into these companies so falling behind the technology of the big hitters.only we have been playing catchup for years.you would be surprised how much public money that has been payed into the private sector to keep these jobs in britain Nissan invests 223m to build new car in Britain - Telegraph

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

thats what went wrong the shareholder taking the profit the bare minimium being invested back into these companies so falling behind the technology of the big hitters.only we have been playing catchup for years.you would be surprised how much public money that has been payed into the private sector to keep these jobs in britain Nissan invests 223m to build new car in Britain - Telegraph

You talk a load of crap, when we had industry to be proud of they were always being dragged out on bloody stick by the communist trade union leaders who were more interested in bringing down the government than anything else

[cmonstanley]

ha ha ha you cant hide the truth all started with globalisation when the shareholder got greedy moving british jobs abroad did they not know for their products to sell the general public needed money and jobs for them to buy their products.as we are seeing now with high food,fuel,product prices , high unemploymen and lack of cash in the economy nobody is going to buy their products maybe the penny will finally drop

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Bloody hell where did you cut and paste that from

It cannot have been cut and pasted, there were no paragraphs...it was just a huge chunk of text...which, if I am truthful, puts me(and I would guess, other people) off reading it.

Had it had paragraphs, capital letters and punctuation ,then I am sure it would have been easier to read.
OK, I know that this is a forum and not an English lesson.
To get a point across it has to be put into ways that will make it easier to read....and therefore, understand.

[Margaret Pilkington]

We exported jobs when we sent mill equipment to countries that could produce cotton goods at a fraction of the cost.....and then we wondered why no-one was buying what we produced.
Confidence in our ability to manufacture to a deadline was also compromised by the actions of the militant unions. OK, that was in the dim and distant past, but once the rot sets in it is a hard job to stop it.

It is really difficult to buy British made goods........maybe it is because the companies that make stuff do a poor job of promoting their products...or it may be that the products are too expensive....or it may be that they aren't up to scratch.

Other countries like China(it used to be Hong Kong or Taiwan) can produce goods much more cheaply....so the edge of competitiveness of British made stuff is lost...and this stuff has to be transported here and duty paid on it...and it is still cheaper.

I do think that Britain is the only country in the EU who sticks to the regulations...and these regulations regarding protectionism do us no favours.

[cmonstanley]

this tells a little story Siemens, which beat Bombardier to the Thameslink rolling stock contract, is now trying to hire its staff, according to the Unite union.

The union said Siemens wants the UK train maker’s procurement and sales staff, as well as Bombardier’s bogies.

Siemens said it was not aware of any approach being made, but insiders at Bombardier told The Sun newspaper that recruitment agencies had been in touch on Siemens' behalf.

Mark Young, regional co-ordinating officer at the Unite union, said the move “beggared belief” and told the newspaper: “One of the senior HR guys told us the company had contacted them and asked if they had any bilingual procurement staff as they had a problem with English speakers.

“It's unbelievable. The question has to be asked, if they haven't got the skills and abilities in the first place how did they win the contract?”

Earlier this week bosses at Bombardier, based in Canada but with substantial facilities at Derby, announced plans to axe 1,429 jobs at the factory after losing out on the valuable contract – which could have a knock-on effect on its future ability to win major contracts.

Transport Secretary Philip Hammond has agreed to meet unions to discuss the situation next week.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

We exported jobs when we sent mill equipment to countries that could produce cotton goods at a fraction of the cost.....and then we wondered why no-one was buying what we produced.

whilst that is true,tis a vicious circle, someone else would have supplied em if we hadn't, similar to a weapons embargo, some sod always provides em wi arms.

[cmonstanley]

or they would be armless

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

dont think british workers are lazy the reason why british companies dont get contracts because previous goverments all the way abck to thatcher didnt give consistent support for manufacturing like succesive german goverments have,they have subsidies or invested in manufacturing companies like the motor trade while britain has declined .germany kept all its research centres open not like britain who slashed them in the early nineties.The stock market and private equity is not as important in Germany as it has been in the US and the UK and a large element of the corporate funding required in Germany is delivered through the banking system which means more money is invested in the company than go to the shareholder German employees enjoy a high rate of pay and a high level of job security which seems to be part of the national culture. In times of stress German companies will try to use work-sharing (kuzarbeit) rather than making significant job cuts which in turn helps maintain loyalty and all important skills within the workforce. Union influence is still significant within the private sector in Germany and in larger companies half of all seats on supervisory boards are reserved for employee representatives - and through this the workforce enjoys considerable veto power. However, the workforce appears to exercise their power responsibly and have been a key part of the success of the sector.so there goes your myth of the lazy british worker as most companies now use agency staff which does,nt exactly motivate the workers.It is no wonder that the current UK government (and to be fair the last government) has concluded that having a strong manufacturing sector is a good idea. The manufacturing framework concept gave the Government a great opportunity to clearly establish its support for the sector and give guidance on how it would provide the framework to help support the long term success of UK manufacturing. Therefore the delay and cancellation of the manufacturing framework was a disappointment.Developing the UK manufacturing sector in future years will not be easy and many commentators consider that the damage of the last 50 years has been too deep to reverse, particularly in the face of ever increasing competition. Unfortunately this may be true. But we must be able to build on the excellent companies and skills that we have in UK manufacturing to maintain a vibrant sector that has a key role in the UK economy and what might end up being a niche place in the world manufacturing economy. In my view this will mean that government understands that it does have an important role to play in establishing a framework for the success of manufacturing in the UK, sending manufacturing orders abroad doesnt help.

at least have the decency to post the link where you lifted the above from
Vorsprung durch manufacturing - what can the UK learn from Germany? - Tom Lawton - BDO

[Boeing Guy]

Yet despite all of the above, we are still the SIXTH LARGEST MANUFACTURER in the world. And are world class in what we do.
Just incase you all missed it

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

this tells a little story Siemens, which beat Bombardier to the Thameslink rolling stock contract, is now trying to hire its staff, according to the Unite union.

The union said Siemens wants the UK train maker’s procurement and sales staff, as well as Bombardier’s bogies.

Siemens said it was not aware of any approach being made, but insiders at Bombardier told The Sun newspaper that recruitment agencies had been in touch on Siemens' behalf.

Mark Young, regional co-ordinating officer at the Unite union, said the move “beggared belief” and told the newspaper: “One of the senior HR guys told us the company had contacted them and asked if they had any bilingual procurement staff as they had a problem with English speakers.

“It's unbelievable. The question has to be asked, if they haven't got the skills and abilities in the first place how did they win the contract?”

Earlier this week bosses at Bombardier, based in Canada but with substantial facilities at Derby, announced plans to axe 1,429 jobs at the factory after losing out on the valuable contract – which could have a knock-on effect on its future ability to win major contracts.

Transport Secretary Philip Hammond has agreed to meet unions to discuss the situation next week.

That's better.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cashman

whilst that is true,tis a vicious circle, someone else would have supplied em if we hadn't, similar to a weapons embargo, some sod always provides em wi arms.

Cashy, that might be so....but I am sure the machines were bought at rock bottom prices....to buy them elsewhere these countries would have had to splash out on new stuff.....and pay market prices.
But hey, these sales were counted as Exports and GB was big on exports at the time.

During the late 60's I worked for a textile firm and they closed down their weaving and spinning operations and took them to South Africa......the machinery was dismantled and shipped out to a purpose built weaving shed in SA.
The majority of us were left jobless...just a handful of young men went out to SA to oversee the start up of the new enterprise.

So the rot started a good long time ago.