40 years. - Page 2

davo69 · 11-07-2007, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Sorry ... don't agree. Don't become like them; if you do then, in a sense, they have won. They have put themselves beyond humanity; I think that it is a mistake to join them. One of the more frustrating things about living in a democracy, under the rule of law, is that one has, fom time to time, to swallow the urge for vengence. "I will probably be shot down in flames for saying this."

what a lot of crap

Wynonie Harris · 11-07-2007, 21:33

Must say I don't agree with you, Eric. They wanted to indiscriminately inflict death and destruction on innocent people, white and black, native-born and immigrant, muslim and non-muslim. All that we are suggesting is locking them up for the rest of their natural lives in harsh conditions and making them earn their keep. Don't really think, therefore, that we are lowering ourselves to their level.

However, fair play to you, you've expressed your views in a reasonable fashion, unlike others with similar beliefs who have tried to impose their views in a self-righteous, holier-than-thou fashion on this forum.

SPUGGIE J · 11-07-2007, 21:33

This is one of those issues that can be so imotive it is going to be a heated thread. Dosnt matter whether they get sent home or stay in the pokey . As Eric says "Don't become like them; if you do then, in a sense, they have won." That would be the ultimate failure on our part.

Margaret Pilkington · 11-07-2007, 21:35

Eric, it isn't vengeance.....it is economic sense. I am not sure exactly how much it costs to keep a man in prison, but I know it is a lot......It really grieves me when I know that these people are enjoying better food with no worries as to how it is paid for, than some of our pensioners......and that through any winter they will not have the worries of paying for their heating bill....and to add insult to injury, not only will we be funding this lifestyle for the failed bombers but also that of their dependants.
And as i said while they are locked up they have the opportunity to poison the minds of other young muslim men....so their escapade may have failed at this attempt, but who is to say that they will not teach many other muslim men how to do a better job next time.

They came into this country because they cited atrocities in their own countries......they came as asylum seekers. One of them was convicted of petty crime and muggings and then was sent to prison....where we are told, that he was 'radicalised'.......he did drugs(allegedly) drank(allegedly) and then becomes a muslim jihadist.
No they should be sent back to the country of origin......and incarcerated there.

Margaret Pilkington · 11-07-2007, 21:40

I think we have to get the message across to people that if you are going to do bad things then expect bad things to happen to you too.
There appears to be no correlation between action and consequences....and wrong doers have to accept that there will be consequences.
And nowhere have I advocated that we do not follow what the law allows......I just think that in such circumstances there should be the possibility of revoking passports and visas and deporting people to the land of their origin or even ancestors.

Margaret Pilkington · 11-07-2007, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

This is one of those issues that can be so imotive it is going to be a heated thread. Dosnt matter whether they get sent home or stay in the pokey . As Eric says "Don't become like them; if you do then, in a sense, they have won." That would be the ultimate failure on our part.

I didn't post the question so that it would become a heated argument, but that it would promote a healthy mature debate......even though the subject matter could be seen as emotive.

davo69 · 11-07-2007, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I think we have to get the message across to people that if you are going to do bad things then expect bad things to happen to you too.
There appears to be no correlation between action and consequences....and wrong doers have to accept that there will be consequences.
And nowhere have I advocated that we do not follow what the law allows......I just think that in such circumstances there should be the possibility of revoking passports and visas and deporting people to the land of their origin or even ancestors.

well said well said

LancYorkYankee · 11-07-2007, 21:51

I may be the lone voice here but I believe anyone found guilty of treason or terrorist acts should face the death sentence!

A question though: Are these guys put in with the general prison population? Wouldn't they "take care of them" as they would child molestors and such?

THIS IS MEANT AS A JOKE: Maybe our American Criminals are more morally righteous. They would assuredly put these scumbags out of our misery and make the prison yard a happier place!

Brian

cashman · 11-07-2007, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Must say I don't agree with you, Eric. They wanted to indiscriminately inflict death and destruction on innocent people, white and black, native-born and immigrant, muslim and non-muslim. All that we are suggesting is locking them up for the rest of their natural lives in harsh conditions and making them earn their keep. Don't really think, therefore, that we are lowering ourselves to their level.

However, fair play to you, you've expressed your views in a reasonable fashion, unlike others with similar beliefs who have tried to impose their views in a self-righteous, holier-than-thou fashion on this forum.

that was exactly the reason i just asked a straightforward question i respected the way the view was put forward, although i vehemently disagree.

well done eric.

Royboy39 · 11-07-2007, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Sorry ... don't agree. Don't become like them; if you do then, in a sense, they have won. They have put themselves beyond humanity; I think that it is a mistake to join them. One of the more frustrating things about living in a democracy, under the rule of law, is that one has, fom time to time, to swallow the urge for vengence. "I will probably be shot down in flames for saying this."

Ok one question.......would you be prepared to fund the incarceration at your expense in Canada. It can be arranged, I will speak to Gordon...would you be prepared to fund these clowns for forty years taking funds from the public purse when life saving drugs are denied to law abiding citizens in your country?

WillowTheWhisp · 11-07-2007, 22:09

They were given sanctuary here from danger in their own native countries. Their thanks for that was to plot to destroy the country which took them in. How should we treat them? How can it be vengeance to seek to protect ourselves and our children? It's not vengeance, it's common sense. Self preservation doesn't bring us down to their level. Far from it.

Yes Margaret you are probably right that failed suicide bombers wouldn't be regarded as such heroes.

It just doesn't seem right that innocent people should be deprived of medical attention and drugs whilst these convicted criminals will get the best medical care in prison, no bills to pay, no worries all at tax payers' expense. Priorities a bit skewed there somewhere.

Wynonie Harris · 11-07-2007, 22:19

There is one overriding reason why they will not be deported. Because this present government refuses to deport anyone, no matter what their crime, to their country of origin, if it is considered that they may face danger there. Perhaps, the government's representative on this forum, Greg Pope, would care to tell us why?

garinda · 11-07-2007, 22:33

If they end up in Belmarsh prison, which a lot of them do, they'll have a fine old time, and all at our expense.

EXCLUSIVE: THE JAIL RUN BY AL-QAEDA - News - Mirror.co.uk

Eric · 12-07-2007, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royboy39

Ok one question.......would you be prepared to fund the incarceration at your expense in Canada. It can be arranged, I will speak to Gordon...would you be prepared to fund these clowns for forty years taking funds from the public purse when life saving drugs are denied to law abiding citizens in your country?

Unfortunately in Canada they would have to serve only 25 years. Some muslims were held for a while in a special facility at Millhaven pen on suspiscion of being linked to terrorist groups. But the Supreme Court upheld their right not to be incarcerated without trial. But I still hold to my opinion .... altho' not to the point of causing a fuss about it. But I do know that in democratic countries, the rights of all citizens, even the ones that are a complete waste of skin, must be protected, and the rule of law must be followed ... or else there is no real point to it all. Those who want to rule by rant and whim and prejudice will have a foot in the door. The recent fuss south of the border about prisoners at Gitmo offends a lot of Americans, but that's democracy at work. Sometimes it aint pretty, but it's the best we have ... it's really all that stands between us and chaos.

Maybe I'm and idealist, but I'm comfortable with that.

b.joel · 12-07-2007, 11:20

The reasons these people give for trying to inflict these atrocities on us is that we are killing their muslim brothers and sisters in Iraq and Afghanistan. Muslims are killing each other every day in both these countries, so to me its just a poor pretence at trying to justify pure evil, end of.