42 Day Detention without Charge - Page 2

andrewb · 02-04-2008, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

As an aside; I listened to a program on CBC radio a couple of weeks ago about surveillance cameras and laws which seem to be illegal in the sense that they tread heavily on civil rights ... there was a comment about England and the over 4 million surveillance cameras they have in place. One of the guys in the discussion ..... I forget his name but he was a brit .... said that England is sleepwalking towards becoming a suspect society, in that all citizens are treated as suspects. There is a presumption of guilt idea on the part of govt. and law enforcement.

I realize that terrorism is a problem, but there have to be other ways of dealing with it than randomly arresting suspects and locking them up without charge for six weeks ... and it could go on. You realease a guy after 6 weeks, and then immediately arrest him again. I strongly believe that if one threatens the rights of any citizen or group of citizens, then one threatens the rights of all. It's taken centuries of struggle to get these rights, and yet many seem to take them for granted.

Couldn't agree more.

Complete presumption of guilt, from ID cards to DNA databases.

The terrorists will never conquer our country, they know they can't achieve that. They can however take away our freedoms, I don't think we should be letting them win.

garinda · 02-04-2008, 22:12

It seems highly unlikely that it will be getting the go-ahead.

Labour MPs attack Smith over 42-day detention - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

jaysay · 03-04-2008, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

It's laughable Cyfr. The 'lock em up and throw away the key Party'. 'Tough on crime Party'. 'Protect Britain Party'. I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I don't know enough but to listen to Tories now is great entertainment if nothing else.This on top of a new socialist policy direction where you are saying The Government should prop up state industries (Post Office's).

You have sold your soul. There seems to be nothing on which the current Conservative party membership has any principle's on at all.

Thats a bit rich coming from you Graham, a member of a party that sold every principal it ever had just to become electable

garinda · 03-04-2008, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

a party that sold every principal it ever had just to become electable

I'm suprisingly in sort of agreement.

Though of course foxes are no longer hunted, and are free to enter into a Civil Partnership, if they so wish. So some of the pledges promised by Labour did come to fruition.

Though the same could be said of the Conservatives, who after eleven years out of government seem to have abandoned each and everyone of the principle tenets too, in the hope of being elected back into power.

Less · 03-04-2008, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

Wasn't thinking.

Quite normal for a person with your leanings, no need to apologise, we are used to it!

andrewb · 03-04-2008, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Though the same could be said of the Conservatives, who after eleven years out of government seem to have abandoned each and everyone of the principle tenets too, in the hope of being elected back into power.

The Conservatives were never about Thatcherism before that though. Maybe they've realised ideology isn't so great

garinda · 03-04-2008, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

The Conservatives were never about Thatcherism before that though. Maybe they've realised ideology isn't so great

Who mentioned Thatcher?

They've all been cut from the same cloth, right back to Spencer Perceval in 1809.

andrewb · 03-04-2008, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Who mentioned Thatcher?

They've all been cut from the same cloth, right back to Spencer Perceval in 1809.

Wrong. Previous to Thatcher they didn't run from an ideology. Completely different kettle of fish.

garinda · 03-04-2008, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

Wrong. Previous to Thatcher they didn't run from an ideology. Completely different kettle of fish.

Same old, same old.

CONSERVATIVE MANIFESTO .COM - 101 Years of Conservative Party Policy

(I'm never wrong.

)

andrewb · 03-04-2008, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Same old, same old.

CONSERVATIVE MANIFESTO .COM - 101 Years of Conservative Party Policy

(I'm never wrong.

)

And that link proves what exactly?

garinda · 03-04-2008, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

And that link proves what exactly?

That historically at the core of the Conservative Party, was a shared common set of principles and beliefs.

Well there was until 'Dave' came along with his all caring, all sharing, hug-a hoodie, nonsense, in the desperate hope of re-winning middle England back from New Labour.

Anyway, off thread.

Rebel Labour M.P.s are likely to block Ms. Smith's proposals, so all the wooly liberals can once again relax.

andrewb · 03-04-2008, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

That historically at the core of the Conservative Party, was a shared common set of principles and beliefs.

Well there was until 'Dave' came along with his all caring, all sharing, hug-a hoodie, nonesense, in the desperate hope of re-winning middle England back from New Labour.

Anyway, off thread.

Rebel Labour M.P.s are likely to block Ms. Smith's proposals, so all the wooly liberals can once again relax.

The link you posted was manifestos, obviously they all have them. The Conservatives pre Thatcher didn't have an ideology however. They had a pragmatic approach to policy making. Completely different. I know it's a thread wander but you brought it up and I simply have to correct you here because it's wrong to say they have always been the same party as the one people remember from the Thatcher/Major era.

I'm glad Labour MP's are against it, the ones that dared speak up in the commons spoke a lot of sense.

garinda · 03-04-2008, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeShark

Even the police say they don't need the extension.

Not quite right. Sir Ian Blair, of the Metropolitan Police, is reportedly in favour of the increase.

garinda · 03-04-2008, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

it's wrong to say they have always been the same party as the one people remember from the Thatcher/Major era.

If you reread my first mention of it, that's exactly what I said. I agreed with Jaysay, saying that Labour have abandoned their socialist ideals, just as the 'new' Conservatives have abandoned their conservative beliefs, in order to whore themselves, to try and appeal, and regain the middle Englanders they lost to Labour.

Sadly both mainstream parties are willing to prostitute themselves, to appear appealing to the electorate.

andrewb · 03-04-2008, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

If you reread my first mention of it, that's exactly what I said. I agreed with Jaysay, saying that Labour have abandoned their socialist ideals, just as the 'new' Conservatives have abandoned their conservative beliefs, in order to whore themselves, to try and appeal, and regain the middle Englanders they lost to Labour.

Sadly both mainstream parties are willing to prostitute themselves, to appear appealing to the electorate.

I acknowledge the Thatcher to Cameron shift, but you said they were the same in general before. I said they were different before Thatcher. Hence not always the same as people remember from the Thatcher/Major period.