42 Day Detention without Charge

andrewb · 01-04-2008, 20:39

The Government plan to pass legislation to increase detention without trial from an already high 28 days, the longest time in any democracy by far, to 42 days.

The closest is Australia 12 days. France can detain for 6 days, Germany 2 days, Canada 1 day. Even the country directly affected by 9/11 and most involved in Iraq, the USA, only holds its citizens for up to 2 days without charge.

Who can we compare with? Zimbabwe has set it at 21 days and China 37.

If you put yourself in the detainees place, how would you feel sat there for 6 weeks if you were innocent? Being detained without anybody even saying why.

The fact is 28 days has only been needed once, and that is very debatable. Why should we increase it further? The government have put no convincing argument forward as yet. It is simply a further erosion of our liberties.

Bonnyboy · 01-04-2008, 22:37

I have no immediate plans to attempt forming a terrorist group, so it shouldn’t be my concern. It’s about time we got tough on something in my opinion.

I suggest that the small minority of people this will affect might bleat a little, other than that …..

Eric · 01-04-2008, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

The Government plan to pass legislation to increase detention without trial from an already high 28 days, the longest time in any democracy by far, to 42 days.

The closest is Australia 12 days. France can detain for 6 days, Germany 2 days, Canada 1 day. Even the country directly affected by 9/11 and most involved in Iraq, the USA, only holds its citizens for up to 2 days without charge.

Who can we compare with? Zimbabwe has set it at 21 days and China 37.

If you put yourself in the detainees place, how would you feel sat there for 6 weeks if you were innocent? Being detained without anybody even saying why.

The fact is 28 days has only been needed once, and that is very debatable. Why should we increase it further? The government have put no convincing argument forward as yet. It is simply a further erosion of our liberties.

I'm confused ... is that time without trial, or without charge? I know that in Ontario, anyone held in custody before a trial is credited with time-served ... usually tripled. If someone is held for 10 days, and recieves a sentence of 30 days, he walks on time served. But you are right ... in Canada the cops have 24 hours to lay a charge, or you walk. Seems reasonable to me. Makes the heat do its homework before arresting someone.

mani · 01-04-2008, 23:19

its held without charge

steeljack · 01-04-2008, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

The Government plan to pass legislation to increase detention without trial from an already high 28 days, the longest time in any democracy by far, to 42 days.

The closest is Australia 12 days. France can detain for 6 days, Germany 2 days, Canada 1 day. Even the country directly affected by 9/11 and most involved in Iraq,
Who can we compare with? Zimbabwe has set it at 21 days and China 37.

If you put yourself in the detainees place, how would you feel sat there for 6 weeks if you were innocent? Being detained without anybody even saying why.

The fact is 28 days has only been needed once, and that is very debatable. Why should we increase it further? The government have put no convincing argument forward as yet. It is simply a further erosion of our liberties.

42 days isn't so bad , just be grateful your Govt. hasn't asked GW Bush if he has any spare rooms at the holiday camp we operate in sunny Cuba

garinda · 01-04-2008, 23:50

Cheapest B & B in Europe.

42 nights, full board?

Can't be beaten.

andrewb · 02-04-2008, 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnyboy

I have no immediate plans to attempt forming a terrorist group, so it shouldn’t be my concern. It’s about time we got tough on something in my opinion.

I suggest that the small minority of people this will affect might bleat a little, other than that …..

Yes thats the problem, it's going to be used against people and they'll have no idea if they're terrorists or not. If they did know they were terrorists they'd charge them.

This isn't about getting tough as in punishment of people who have committed offences. I'm all for that.

Yes sorry it's without charge not trial. Wasn't thinking.

g jones · 02-04-2008, 08:09

It's laughable Cyfr. The 'lock em up and throw away the key Party'. 'Tough on crime Party'. 'Protect Britain Party'. I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I don't know enough but to listen to Tories now is great entertainment if nothing else.This on top of a new socialist policy direction where you are saying The Government should prop up state industries (Post Office's).

You have sold your soul. There seems to be nothing on which the current Conservative party membership has any principle's on at all.

park381 · 02-04-2008, 08:28

Quote:

The Government plan to pass legislation to increase detention without trial from an already high 28 days, the longest time in any democracy by far, to 42 days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

It's laughable Cyfr. The 'lock em up and throw away the key Party'. 'Tough on crime Party'. 'Protect Britain Party'. I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I don't know enough

Hang on, am I missing something here, is that not "your" party mr jones

garinda · 02-04-2008, 12:32

Not commenting as to the rights or wrongs of this, but didn't hear much of an outcry when the Conservatives increased the time that terrorist suspects could be held without being charged, from 48 hours to seven days, which went against a ruling from the European Court of Human Rights.

Britain, Citing Ulster Terrorism, Keeps Detention - New York Times

garinda · 02-04-2008, 12:40

Which by the way, for those who are obsessed with percentages, is a greater increase in time than the current government are trying to bring in.

DeShark · 02-04-2008, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Not commenting as to the rights or wrongs of this, but didn't hear much of an outcry when the Conservatives increased the time that terrorist suspects could be held without being charged...

Why is this a party matter? The rights of possibly innocent individuals is being placed on the line and no-one seems to care. It's an outrage!

Holding someone without charge for 4 weeks is long enough! To extend this to 6 weeks - 3.5 times longer than any other democratic government - is barmy! Imagine being found innocent at the end of that period of time. 6 weeks absent from your job for suspected terrorism? Your job's not worth going back to! And that's an innocent person. Even the police say they don't need the extension. What's going on?

garinda · 02-04-2008, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeShark

Why is this a party matter? The rights of possibly innocent individuals is being placed on the line and no-one seems to care. It's an outrage!

Holding someone without charge for 4 weeks is long enough! To extend this to 6 weeks - 3.5 times longer than any other democratic government - is barmy! Imagine being found innocent at the end of that period of time. 6 weeks absent from your job for suspected terrorism? Your job's not worth going back to! And that's an innocent person. Even the police say they don't need the extension. What's going on?

It isn't a party matter, just pointing out that this is not the first government to increase the holding time of suspected terrorists without charge.

park381 · 02-04-2008, 15:09

You must be a mind reader Cyfr, cheers

Eric · 02-04-2008, 16:51

Govt. tried something like that here a couple of years ago ... built a special facility at Millhaven pen, just down the road from here ... but the courts said nfw ... charge them or free them.

As an aside; I listened to a program on CBC radio a couple of weeks ago about surveillance cameras and laws which seem to be illegal in the sense that they tread heavily on civil rights ... there was a comment about England and the over 4 million surveillance cameras they have in place. One of the guys in the discussion ..... I forget his name but he was a brit .... said that England is sleepwalking towards becoming a suspect society, in that all citizens are treated as suspects. There is a presumption of guilt idea on the part of govt. and law enforcement.

I realize that terrorism is a problem, but there have to be other ways of dealing with it than randomly arresting suspects and locking them up without charge for six weeks ... and it could go on. You realease a guy after 6 weeks, and then immediately arrest him again. I strongly believe that if one threatens the rights of any citizen or group of citizens, then one threatens the rights of all. It's taken centuries of struggle to get these rights, and yet many seem to take them for granted.