4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

The laying of wreaths on Remembrance day is one of the few occasions when political parties actually put aside their differences.

It's not about self promotion, or advertising any political party. It's about showing respect and remembering those who have given their lives in the service of their country.

Discreet card, saying who the wreathe is from, fitting.



The centre of a wreath, emblazoned with a political party logo, as seen on the ones on this site, photographed at the Cenotaph, are using rememberance for their own advertising.

The Cenotaph in London - Rememberance day

I suppose you've got to lack a certain amount of dignity, if you're after securing public votes.

[garinda]

Although I quoted you Bernard, I meant political parties lacked dignity, when seeking to advertise themselves.

Wasn't a dig at any individual politicans, yourself included.

Still I suppose it saves a bit of money from the vast amount of money the main political parties spend with advertising agencies each year.

[katex]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

I was just making the point Kate, that when it comes to remembrance day politicians of all political parties including independents do tend to put aside their differences.

Still find your point a little contradictory Bernard .. how can they be setting aside their differences, when they are offering wreaths separately ?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by katex

Still find your point a little contradictory Bernard .. how can they be setting aside their differences, when they are offering wreaths separately ?

Exactly.

Men, and women, supporters of all political parties, fought and died side by side.

A greater show of remembered unity would be a joint wreath, but that wouldn't satisfy the many egos alive and well in the murky world of politics.

When there's more self advertising evident on a wreath, than there are poppies, that stinks.

[onlyme]

Is the same not happening on this thread?

As far as I can see it was designed to be a thread about commemorating our forces. Its turned into another political debate.

As Garinda has said, men and women, supporters of all political parties have fought and died side by side.

Lest we forget

[Mick]

There was more Merchant seamen died in the north Atlantic conflict than was in the royal navy so why are they not on the list ?
They where the lifeline of the nation throughout the war and nothing has been said about them

[garinda]

Originally Posted by mick

There was more Merchant seamen died in the north Atlantic conflict than was in the royal navy so why are they not on the list ?
They where the lifeline of the nation throughout the war and nothing has been said about them

You're right.

I think Jambutty alluded to the many other people who served, sometimes with their lives, in his second post.

As well as merchant seamen the list could also include the women who took over men's jobs at home, to keep the country running, and the troops supplied, some of whom also died, especially in the first war in armaments factories.

I was careful not to single out any political party, to stop this becoming a political thread, as it appears that all of them are more than happy to lay a wreath which has a greater percentage of it made up of a political logo, rather than poppies.

[Eric]

I was wondering if the selection of the date for your Veterans' Day has anything to do with the Armistice ending the conflict in Korea, which was signed on July 27, 1953? I know there were ceromonies in Ottawa: laying wreaths at the memorial for the 516 Canadians who died in Korea etc. And on Mick's point about the Merchant Navy: there was a lot of debate here about this a few years back. Ended up with a lot of info getting out about what sacrifices the merchant sailors made for the war effort. There were medals struck, some pensions awarded, and many communities, particularly in the Maritime Provinces (PEI, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia) erected monuments honouring the courage of these men. There is one in Kingston, down by the inner harbour.

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by garinda

Exactly.

Men, and women, supporters of all political parties, fought and died side by side.

A greater show of remembered unity would be a joint wreath, but that wouldn't satisfy the many egos alive and well in the murky world of politics.

When there's more self advertising evident on a wreath, than there are poppies, that stinks.

Lots of organisations lay wreaths on remembrance day including different political parties.

I've been attending remembrance day parades for years. And I honestly don't believe there's an hidden agenda on anyone's part.

We are there to remember those who have given their lives for this Country. And sometimes we might have to recognise that even politicians can be acting in good faith.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

Lots of organisations lay wreaths on remembrance day including different political parties.

I've been attending remembrance day parades for years. And I honestly don't believe there's an hidden agenda on anyone's part.

We are there to remember those who have given their lives for this Country. And sometimes we might have to recognise that even politicians can be acting in good faith.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I think it's tasteless that a wreath has more of it's surface area taken up by a political logo, than by poppies.

You don't.

[garinda]

At least the claims against expenses for Rememberance Day wreaths, were one of the very few things that seemed to have been rejected.

At least we're not paying directly for their political self-promotion.

Wreath laid at war memorial claimed on MP’s expenses - Telegraph

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

Lots of organisations lay wreaths on remembrance day including different political parties.

I've been attending remembrance day parades for years. And I honestly don't believe there's an hidden agenda on anyone's part.

We are there to remember those who have given their lives for this Country. And sometimes we might have to recognise that even politicians can be acting in good faith.

Totally with you on this one Bernard

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Totally with you on this one Bernard

As another card carrying member of a party, that has no qualms about laying a wreath emblazoned with a large political logo, that doesn't suprise me.

To me it's still distasteful, showy, and self promoting.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

As another card carrying member of a party, that has no qualms about laying a wreath emblazoned with a large political logo, that doesn't suprise me.

To me it's still distasteful, showy, and self promoting.

I'd sooner that that political parties be accused of not giving a stuff

[Gayle]

Well I have been into the council offices and got to the bottom of wreathgate!

There was a lot of organisation involved with saturday's event - sound systems, road closures, order of service, buffet, names on plaque etc etc. Someone suggested that wreaths should be ordered and that it would be appropriate for the Leader of the Council, the Leader of the Opposition (as it happens Clare Pritchard stood in for Graham) and the Mayor on behalf of the people of Accrington, should lay a wreath.

These were duly ordered via the British Legion. They arrived but weren't checked until the morning of the event. The British Legion organised the wreaths and just did the standard Conservative, Labour and HBC ones that they have done many times in the past. So, when the wreaths were checked on the Saturday morning it was only then that it was discovered that the centres were emblazoned with logos. From what I can understand there was a lot of frustration when this was discovered but both parties agreed that it would be better to carry a wreath with the party name on rather than no wreath at all.

So you could start with recriminations - someone should have been clearer with instructions, someone at the Legion should have checked what was required rather than assuming to do the norm, someone at the Council should have checked the wreaths on arrival. But, I think it's blowing it a bit out of proportion here.

There was no intention to publicise or promote either of the political parties, there was just a genuine gesture that went slightly wrong. We shouldn't let it take away from the day itself, it's meaning and the success of the event.