54% of teenage girls have a child before 18.... According to the Tories

[cashman]

great post ken n so very true.

[Stumped]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

You're quite right, Less. Great Britain has long since become a mixed-race society but the irritation set in with the indiginous populace when the PC Brigade started discriminating towards everyone that came a-knocking for fear of being labelled 'racist'. This has now left us with a society that will bow to pressure from anyone who flashes the racism card and it seems obvious to me why such groups as the BNP are getting a foothold.

I'm not criticising or defending anyone but for all the money that is spent on trying to integrate the people of this country with each other and treat ethnics no differently it is particularly true of the Muslims that many class themselves as being another nationality, whether they were born here or not. You can't have it both ways and yet it is the people who adopt this stance and then play the racism card that gets the country's back up.

As I said recently, there really should be no talk of 'the Asian community' or 'the English/white community' as that in itself implies discrimination, positive or otherwise. For every group that gets discriminated towards, another group by definition is being discriminated against.

Political correctness has stunted so many common sense decisions that we are now in a country with millions of harmless people who are too scared too help each other out or open their mouth for fear of somebody being 'offended'.

One genius decision I heard about recently involved a little girl from a Preston drama group being told she must walk home alone in the dark because no one was CRB checked. Fortunately, a friend of mine 'rebelled' and drove her home but 20 years ago that situation would have been unthinkable where I grew up.

I'm not advocating racism in any way but we need to take a good hard look at who the bigots really are in a lot of the situations we hear about. Racism, again by definition, works both ways.

Couldn't have put it better myself, Ken. It seems to me that every time anyone criticises or makes a comment in good faith about certain sections of the community at large, they are accused of being racist. If being critical of the bend over backwards stance of our political elite is being seen as racist, then I can only agree to disagree.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Stumped

Couldn't have put it better myself, Ken. It seems to me that every time anyone criticises or makes a comment in good faith about certain sections of the community at large, they are accused of being racist. If being critical of the bend over backwards stance of our political elite is being seen as racist, then I can only agree to disagree.

Kens post makes sense but I don't believe all this talk of the "PC brigade"...if such a brigade exsist then I havent seen them on this forum.. this forum is in the public domain and anyone can read posts.. so when people complian they cannot say "black" or critisize muslims they are talking rubbish.. because they can and do.. so whats the problem?

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Mancie

Kens post makes sense but I don't believe all this talk of the "PC brigade"...if such a brigade exsist then I havent seen them on this forum.. this forum is in the public domain and anyone can read posts.. so when people complian they cannot say "black" or critisize muslims they are talking rubbish.. because they can and do.. so whats the problem?

this talk of P.C. brigade is just a buzz word as they call it these days fer the knobheads that have ballsed society up.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by cashman

this talk of P.C. brigade is just a buzz word as they call it these days fer the knobheads that have ballsed society up.

Couldn't have put that better myself, either.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Mancie

Kens post makes sense but I don't believe all this talk of the "PC brigade"...if such a brigade exsist then I havent seen them on this forum.. this forum is in the public domain and anyone can read posts.. so when people complian they cannot say "black" or critisize muslims they are talking rubbish.. because they can and do.. so whats the problem?

I cite examples of PC Brigade stupidity probably far too often but it's quite near the top of my list of things that get me wound up. I've only ever met one or two of these do-gooders myself but I generally don't have a lot of time for them because they're almost always trying to interfere in things that they have no first-hand experience of.

I find it fascinating how many of the urban middle class make the rules that working class and rural folk have to abide by. One of my businesses is in landscaping and systems which have worked perfectly well for years are now deemed unsafe by health and safety officials who can't even tell the difference between a tractor and a digger. It's funny that in order for them to view certain machinery and chemicals as 'safe' it costs us a lot more money too. I am bound by law to have a 'no smoking' sign in the cab of each work van even though none of us smoke.

I'm not saying anyone on here is from 'the Brigade' but, as Stumped implied, every time anyone mentions the words 'Muslim' or 'black' there's an awful lot of looking over your shoulder first for even the most innoculous of remarks.

Gollywogs, blackboards, Christmas - we'll soon be having these bleeped out on television programmes the way things are going. Is it any wonder people are getting fed up of feeling like a stranger in their own country for being labelled 'racist' over things which have been part of our culture for generations?

The elections in May will be interesting to say the least because they are the only voice that the public has left. The main parties could do worse than actually listen to what the populace is telling them because people are not voting BNP and UKIP for no reason.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

The elections in May will be interesting to say the least because they are the only voice that the public has left. The main parties could do worse than actually listen to what the populace is telling them because people are not voting BNP and UKIP for no reason.

That is a very strange comment to make from someone in your position.

Here you are stood side by side with Graham Jones in the Telegraph

And as it says on Grahams Blog you are standing as a Councillor in Rishton for the Labour Party that you say "could do worse than actually listen to what the populace is telling them".

So why are you a member of the Labour Party if they are not listenening?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I find it fascinating how many of the urban middle class make the rules that working class and rural folk have to abide by.

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

As I said recently, there really should be no talk of 'the Asian community' or 'the English/white community' as that in itself implies discrimination, positive or otherwise. For every group that gets discriminated towards, another group by definition is being discriminated against.

Your derogatory posts of 'Chelsea tractors' for 4x4 drivers, and the numbers of 'Yuppies' shopping in Accrington, and now the 'urban middle classes', could be construed that you seem a little obsessed with class, and prejudiced against certain people in society.

Personally I wouldn't describe those that govern us as either urban, or middle class, especially when there are nearly as many public school educated toffs in New Labour, as there are in the shadow cabinet.

It's also amusing that you pigeon hole the 'working classes' and the 'rural folk' into two generic groups.

So £950/per hour Cherie Blair would be in the same catagory as a road sweeper, and the Lord of the Manor would be labelled the same as someone who worked on one of his estates in the country?

For someone who apparently is anti-political correctness, you seem quite keen to label people yourself, even when those labels make little sense.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Neil

That is a very strange comment to make from someone in your position.

Here you are stood side by side with Graham Jones in the Telegraph

And as it says on Grahams Blog you are standing as a Councillor in Rishton for the Labour Party that you say "could do worse than actually listen to what the populace is telling them".

So why are you a member of the Labour Party if they are not listenening?

That's because Graham is a very passionate man about Hyndburn and I can't imagine a better candidate for the borough, frankly. He has and will continue to get my support as his personal beliefs about what is best for the region stem from actually living here and seeing first-hand the problems that need putting right. He has a very clear outline of the things he wants to push for and does not see concentrating all money in one ward as the best way forward.

If I suddenly decided that I would lobby vehemently for more litter bins in Rishton when people are actually screaming out for things like the leg clinic to be moved back to the surgery, a community centre and a decent bus shelter what sort of politician would I make if I was elected? Not a very long-term one, I suspect.

ALL parties need to listen to what the public are saying, that is their job. What Westminster and Whitehall decide will benefit the Home Counties may have little relevance in places like Hyndburn, Newcastle or Cumbria and this is where disillusionment sets in.

I know about Rishton and that is what I am standing up to represent. Racism is remarkably low on my list of things to tackle because it isn't a problem we come across very often in our town but certain other parts of the country are now finding it a major issue. It is for the representatives of those areas to listen to their voters and do what is best for them, not what is simply seen to be the politically correct thing to do.

Again, I am not advocating racism but if the public are getting up in arms about immigration to the point where extreme right parties are getting voted in and an appearance by Nick Griffin on a television programme that doesn't usually get enormous viewing figures ends up in that week's top ten then perhaps it's an issue worthy of attention.

For all wards and boroughs the vote should be for the person that will do the best job and not simply the badge they happen to be wearing. That will always be my standpoint and I will support Graham Jones because I firmly believe that he is good for Hyndburn.

I have been out there at least having a go at making things better for some time and I would like to think that I am the best candidate for Rishton by being the best man for the job. If the public don't think that I am then they won't vote for me and I won't have been doing the right things.

Whoever gets the most votes in any ward should base their tenure on listening to the people they represent and being the spokesperson for the feelings of their community rather than blindly following a uniform set of ideals. Just because I happen to be aligned with one particular party does not change the fact that people should always vote for the best candidate rather than the badge.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by garinda

It's also amusing that you pigeon hole the 'working classes' and the 'rural folk' into two generic groups.

For someone who apparently is anti-political correctness, you seem quite keen to label people yourself, even when those labels make little sense.

I wonder what it is that you do for a living? I feel fairly certain that if I was in a position to start making decisions that forced you to change sensible, self-regulating working practices that you had used for years on the pretense of health and safety you would be pretty annoyed about it.

There are plenty of systems that work perfectly well in this country and have done for decades yet are breaking down because of interference. There is an old adage about this, I'm sure you've heard it.

I have seen plenty of your other posts and it seems that your method of trying to undermine someone revolves around targeting one word or phrase rather than the argument itself. People like yourself who get more worked up about labels than actually sorting problems out are exactly what this thread has turned towards.

[DaveinGermany]

Hang on a second Mancie, ref my post 50, you may find the points therein made redundant, it looks like a political Ding Dong may be in the air. The old warhorse Rindy has joined the fray versus the new man Ken, this could well be worth following.

clean fight please boys, no punching below the belt. when the gong goes come out fighting, when the gong goes again back into your corners and wait for your seconds.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Hang on a second Mancie, ref my post 50, you may find the points therein made redundant, it looks like a political Ding Dong may be in the air. The old warhorse Rindy has joined the fray versus the new man Ken, this could well be worth following.

clean fight please boys, no punching below the belt. when the gong goes come out fighting, when the gong goes again back into your corners and wait for your seconds.

This is all getting far too civilised. Could we get back off-topic, please?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I wonder what it is that you do for a living? I feel fairly certain that if I was in a position to start making decisions that forced you to change sensible, self-regulating working practices that you had used for years on the pretense of health and safety you would be pretty annoyed about it.

There are plenty of systems that work perfectly well in this country and have done for decades yet are breaking down because of interference. There is an old adage about this, I'm sure you've heard it.

I have seen plenty of your other posts and it seems that your method of trying to undermine someone revolves around targeting one word or phrase rather than the argument itself. People like yourself who get more worked up about labels than actually sorting problems out are exactly what this thread has turned towards.

'People like me'?

I thought you'd agreed in another thread it was wrong, and stupid, to judge a book by it's cover? Instead you've attached one of your little labels to myself now. Hilarious.

As for undermining you, all I know about you is from the relatively few posts you've made on here. A high percentage of which have been posts in which you've made sweeping generalisations about people, and labelled them.

As long as you continue to do this, because it's so easy to judge people wrongly, I will continue to 'undermine' you, or what's known in less hysterical terms as offering my opinion to the debate.

[jaysay]

I've been off line for two days and Mancie has made a storm in a tea cup over a misplaced decimal point, for Christ's sake don't go into politics full time Mancie you'll be contender for Prime Minister

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by garinda

'People like me'?

People who seem obsessed with not labelling groups in society for fear of being 'racist' or 'bigoted' when it is virtually impossible to have a reasoned debate about many topics without doing so.

Farmers generally work in rural areas so sooner or later the term 'rural area' is going to crop up in a debate over a rural issue, say foot and mouth disease. By association, so is a variation on the term 'rural folk' which isn't derogatory but separates the needs and views of those particular residents from someone who lives on the sixth floor of a tenement block in London. Decisions which affect farmers have been made by people who are not necessarily from that background and have not helped the industry but have been seen as the 'correct' thing to do. Again, I cite the rules on chemicals which have been used safely for years and yet are now 'dangerous' without the right certificate and have seen their prices rise astronomically, making them prohibitively expensive for people who need them to make a living. There is a huge amount of common sense in the algricultural and horticultural community which doesn't need new regulations to make things 'safe'.

Arguing the toss over terminology and wasting money on think tanks and committees to make sure that certain words could not be misconstrued by a small but vocal minority of the easily-offended is not the way forward.

The country is obsessed with pandering to minority groups, many of whom are not kicking up a fuss in the first place. I believe this was the point that Stumped raised in post #58.

I'll just put this to the forum as the epitome of PC Brigade conundrums: there is a Black Police Officer's Association and yet what would the reaction be if someone was to try and set up a White one? Is there a real subjective difference? Why is one racist and the other not?

If we all just got on with identifying and preventing actual real-life problems and fixing them in the simplest way rather than worrying over problems which don't exist we would probably have a better society.