60 Points For Keeping Shtumm

jambutty · 24-09-2007, 11:34

Starting today the law changes so that if the registered keeper cannot or will not name the driver of a car that has been clocked for exceeding the speed limit or breaking any other highways law, the registered keeper gets the 6 points on their license plus the £1,000 fine with the option of being disqualified too.

When this law first reared its ugly head I was against it in principle and still am. It is up to the police to prove their case and not force the general public to give evidence under pain of punishment. THAT IS A POLICE STATE!

However as it is the law and I am generally a law abiding citizen, I can only agree to the increase from 3 points. Far too many people have been exceeding the speed limit and getting away with it. Indeed it has been suggested that some people have been paying the registered keeper to take the punishment. With 6 points on offer many people will have second thoughts about carrying the can for someone else.

entwisi · 24-09-2007, 11:38

taking points that aren't 'yours' is actually perverting the course of justice and has a penalty far in excess of £1K. IIRC its clink and porridge time.

As for the point of your post, I'm in agreement that I thought we had a right to not incriminate yourself so silence is a valid response?

Still we are only motorists and easy targets when there is all that hard work involved in catching crooks/rapists/armed robbers etc waiting for attention

davo69 · 24-09-2007, 11:39

have to agree with you i no a couple of people who haave took points for other drivers

grego · 24-09-2007, 11:45

I'm not against this and if it stops people taking points for others then its a good thing, the registered keeper of the vehicle has to take responsibility for it, or be truthful to who was driving.

jambutty · 24-09-2007, 11:47

I see that no one has spotted my glaring mistake.

60 Points For Keeping Shtumm

It should of course have read “6 Points For Keeping Shtumm”.

grego · 24-09-2007, 11:48

Must admit I didn't notice

***Mr D*** · 24-09-2007, 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

I see that no one has spotted my glaring mistake.

60 Points For Keeping Shtumm

It should of course have read “6 Points For Keeping Shtumm”.

I noticed.

I dont think this is to bad, at the end of the day the owner of the car should really know who is/was driving it.

panther · 24-09-2007, 12:05

i agree with this totally the registererd keeper is, like grego said, responsible for that car and if they are daft enough to lend it to someone who a complete idiot on the road then thats their daft look out!

jambutty · 24-09-2007, 12:16

We’ve been through this point before but no person should be forced to give evidence against another under pain of punishment for themselves if they don’t.

Where will it end?

DVLA admits that car cloning is rife and has reached epidemic proportions these days but it is the registered keeper who gets ‘that letter’ and then s/he has to prove her/his innocence rather than the police having to prove her/his guilt. Whatever happened to the innocent until proven guilty that is at the very heart of English law?

***Mr D*** · 24-09-2007, 12:22

The Registared Keeper of the car should know who is driving it for Insurance Purposes.

jambutty · 24-09-2007, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by panther

i agree with this totally the registererd keeper is, like grego said, responsible for that car and if they are daft enough to lend it to someone who a complete idiot on the road then thats their daft look out!

So you and greco have never exceeded the speed limit?

It is the easiest thing in the world to let your speed creep up without really noticing it until you see that bright flash. And it can happen to anyone at any time including that very responsible driver you have loaned the car to.

jambutty · 24-09-2007, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ***Mr D***

The Registared Keeper of the car should know who is driving it for Insurance Purposes.

As much as I agree with you ***Mr D*** there are many scenarios where you as the registered keeper will not know who is driving your car.

Here’s just one.

Your wife/partner, son and daughter are all included on your insurance and they set off to visit granny a couple of hundred miles away. You can’t go because you have to stay at home. They share the driving there and back but you won’t know when the driver is changed. Somewhere along the way they get clocked. A week or ten days later you get ‘that letter’. You ask your family who was driving when but they cannot remember who it was or they cannot agree who was driving at the time of the offence.

The court does not accept your story and you get the points etc. Is that fair?

This is a crackpot law that drives a coach and horses right through the basic tenet of English law.

***Mr D*** · 24-09-2007, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

As much as I agree with you ***Mr D*** there are many scenarios where you as the registered keeper will not know who is driving your car.

Here’s just one.

Your wife/partner, son and daughter are all included on your insurance and they set off to visit granny a couple of hundred miles away. You can’t go because you have to stay at home. They share the driving there and back but you won’t know when the driver is changed. Somewhere along the way they get clocked. A week or ten days later you get ‘that letter’. You ask your family who was driving when but they cannot remember who it was or they cannot agree who was driving at the time of the offence.

The court does not accept your story and you get the points etc. Is that fair?

This is a crackpot law that drives a coach and horses right through the basic tenet of English law.

In that case though, with it being Family, someone must have a idea who was driving, even if you narrowed it down to two of them and flipped a coin.

There are a few circumstances ie when its a company car where your argument would be fair but for the general Public someone should be accountable. as the owner should know who was in there car at that time or have a very good idea who it was. Plus it would also make you more carefull who you lent your car to.

Less · 24-09-2007, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ***Mr D***

In that case though, with it being Family, someone must have a idea who was driving, even if you narrowed it down to two of them and flipped a coin.

I think it would set a terrible precedent to decide who will take the blame by flipping a coin, if there are circumstances where no-one that shared a car on that day can honestly remember who drove on a particular stretch of road then there is an element of doubt I was given to understand in a British court of Law where there is an element of doubt then the person has to go free.

***Mr D*** · 24-09-2007, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

I think it would set a terrible precedent to decide who will take the blame by flipping a coin, if there are circumstances where no-one that shared a car on that day can honestly remember who drove on a particular stretch of road then there is an element of doubt I was given to understand in a British court of Law where there is an element of doubt then the person has to go free.

I agree and it was a (here say) comment, but then, being double Flashed by speed camera and not noticing is a rare event.

I mean lets be honest who wouldnt remember when they where driving a car? if they did forget should they be driving? I bet if there was a reward instead of a fine they would soon remember.

I know we the motorist are just cash machines but for people to say I dont know who was driving the car, or it could of been any two of us but we cant remember is no excuse IMO, if you've done the crime pay the fine.
(unless you got a good argument

)