a lesson to the british prison system! - Page 3

AccyAlec · 10-01-2007, 02:53

With the sounds of him he should go on one of the JAIL prison dramas... that would be intresting to watch

.

and yea i think prisons should be like the way he runs them.

Alec

steeljack · 10-01-2007, 03:03

It would be interesting if someone could find the recidivism rates for the different countries in the EU 'tough jails' in Greece , Bulgaria ,Romania etc. compared with the 'soft' UK , Also the recidivism rates in the UK compared with other countries worldwide , I'm sure the EU Headquarters have these numbers since these are national statistics ,and maybe the UN/Amnesty have figures for other countries .
Would take a bit of digging but I'm sure at least one of the politcians who use this site have access to the numbers , (whos the local MEP and is he/she an Accy web user ?) maybe he could get someone to check the facts and tell us if the countries with softer jails produce more repeat offenders than the countries with harsher regimes .

WillowTheWhisp · 10-01-2007, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

different countries in the EU 'tough jails' in Greece , Bulgaria ,Romania etc. compared with the 'soft' UK

This bit got me thinking............

We're all in the same EU and every time we try to get tough we are overridden by the EU human rights palaver, right?

So how come there even ARE EU countries with systems a heck of a lot tougher than here? Shouldn't there be some sort of level playing field?

jedimaster · 10-01-2007, 09:11

very good pint willow
i never thought of that but it will probably end up with the tougher countries becoming more like ours!

Wynonie Harris · 10-01-2007, 13:52

The reason why other EU countries may have tougher laws than us is that the Human Rights Act does not have its origins in the EU. It has its origins in the European Convention on Human Rights which was set up in 1950 by the Council of Europe - an institution which has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.

For 48 years after this, we were not bound by this Convention in any way, but in 1998, the present government incorporated it into English law as the Human Rights Act.

Incidentally, Jedimaster, a freudian slip here I think! Maybe you were looking forward to a trip down the pub when you wrote it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedimaster

very good pint willow

jedimaster · 10-01-2007, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Incidentally, Jedimaster, a freudian slip here I think! Maybe you were looking forward to a trip down the pub when you wrote it!

oops maybe i thought i needed a stiff one after the seriousness in this thread!

WillowTheWhisp · 10-01-2007, 15:34

Maybe you'd seen this in another thread

jedimaster · 10-01-2007, 15:41

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer!

***Mr D*** · 10-01-2007, 16:16

Prison in this country is a joke.

The stroies I have heard, like people breaking in to open prison to drop there mate of some fags, booze ect, chilling with them for a while then breaking back out.

People wanting to go back to prison, so coming out and re offending to get put straight back in.

The best I heard was someone making money from being in jail , more than if they was out of jail.

Soon we will have too many offenders to put in our already over crowded prisons.

jedimaster · 10-01-2007, 16:25

but i doubt it if corporal punishment were reintroduced

***Mr D*** · 10-01-2007, 16:27

For certain offences, the offender should be birched outside the town hall.

Public Show.

Billcat · 10-01-2007, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedimaster

ok maybe i need to explain a little more

i am mereley trying to say that the BRITISH prison system could learn a thing or two from this example
the difference in justice systems between here and America is irrelevant
britain needs to stop treating convicted criminals in prisons as 1st class passengers on the QEII and actually punish them for their crimes

If criminals were to see that prison meant punishment and hard labour instead of luxury and a free ride through life then just maybe there would be less repeat offences!

I've not been a first class passenger on the QEII, but I did travel on her - in just about the least expensive cabin! You'll have to excuse me for doubting that the accomodations in Her Majesty's prisons even come close. Somehow, I doubt that Wormwood Scrubs measures up - not to mention the fact that, on the QEII, one never feels that one's fellow passengers are going to beat, rape or kill you.

"Luxury" in prisons? I think not!

jedimaster · 10-01-2007, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

I've not been a first class passenger on the QEII, but I did travel on her - in just about the least expensive cabin! You'll have to excuse me for doubting that the accomodations in Her Majesty's prisons even come close. Somehow, I doubt that Wormwood Scrubs measures up - not to mention the fact that, on the QEII, one never feels that one's fellow passengers are going to beat, rape or kill you.

"Luxury" in prisons? I think not!

in comparison to some working class family homes in this country they may as well be and it's honest taxpayers money that keeps them in this luxury.

Billcat · 10-01-2007, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedimaster

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer!

Now, that message I can agree with!

Billcat · 10-01-2007, 20:08

Okay, back with the hard data!

Interesting article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism. Goes completely against the ideas proposed in this string. Perhaps someone on the pro-harsh-punishment side of the debate would care to counter with some other factual data?

Per the article, the USA (with harsher, punitive prisons) has a recidivism rate of 60%, while the UK with more emphasis on education and rehabilitation, has a rate of 50%. In other words, the recidivism rate in the USA is 120% of that experiencedi in the UK!

Hardly surprising, IMHO. Many prisoners are poorly educated, alienated from society, and unlikely to be able to earn a living. The UK system, which places a greater emphasis on addressing these issues, results in lower rates of repeat offenders. Perfect? Of course not! But considerably better than ours - and I'm sure that we here in the USA spend far more of our tax dollars on prisons that you do in the UK, given our longer prision terms and five times higher rate of imprisonment 625 per 100,000 in the USA, versus 125 in the UK. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/r88.pdf

Frankly, when it somes to getting results, perhaps the USA should look the the UK as the superior model in this instance.