Abu Qatada to be deported

[Eric]

All is not lost, good people. Just read in the news that your PM is "fed up" with the whole issue ... now things will start moving

[churchfcrules]

just hang the F3cker!, apologise afterwards, could live with that!

oh and any "fine" we may receive would probably be cheaper than combined benefits, prosecution costs, defence costs, and presumably the cost of the armed guard that no doubt this creature will have posted to protect him from us nasty British people

[Eric]

Hey ... just noticed that this guy is not a British citizen ... so, apart from the EU and other bs human rights group, there would be no problem with giving him the bum's rush. I did a little checking, and it seems the only quarantee that one cannot be deported from Canada is Canadian citizenship.

[claytonx]

Originally Posted by Eric

All is not lost, good people. Just read in the news that your PM is "fed up" with the whole issue ... now things will start moving

Just words Eric, I think we have heard them before.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Eric

Hey ... just noticed that this guy is not a British citizen ... so, apart from the EU and other bs human rights group, there would be no problem with giving him the bum's rush. I did a little checking, and it seems the only quarantee that one cannot be deported from Canada is Canadian citizenship.

Utter crap mate, Yeh can't even deport "Illegals" here if it infringes on their Human Rights.

[Margaret Pilkington]

They don't even know who the illegals are - so pretty slim chance of deporting them

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

They don't even know who the illegals are - so pretty slim chance of deporting them

Oh they know who some of em are. Like the guy that knocked down n killed that poor sod down Blackburn, Still here i believe.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Sky news reports that Theresa May thinks that Justice Mitting(who was in charge of the proceedings) applied the 'wrong legal test' to this judgement....and stated that the government will continue to press for this mans removal.

Yes the government will make an appeal in a UK court, because, as I said this latest ruling was not made in Strasbourg..it was made in a UK court by UK judges.

[Margaret Pilkington]

He is only one of many.
Due to our ineffective border controls, there are hundreds of thousands in this country who should not be here...and worse still, they may be offered an amnesty, basically because it seems like too much hard work to trace and deport them.

[Mancie]

I seem to recall an amnesty for all illegals was in the Lib-Dem manifesto at the last election..now who could have such a stupid idea..hang on Mr Clegg is now the deputy Prime Minister

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Now, now, Mancie, you're only telling half a story there, aren't you? The FULL story from the BBC is this

Judges at the European Court in Strasbourg ruled early in 2012 that the cleric would not face ill-treatment if returned to Jordan. They said a special UK-Jordan agreement over Mr Qatada's treatment, called a Memorandum of Understanding, was sound and met European standards of humane treatment.

Critically however, the judge did not believe he would get a fair trial because a Jordanian court could use evidence against Abu Qatada that had been obtained from the torture of others.

...and yet again, Mancie, you're only telling us half the story. Yes, the ECHR think he will get fair treatment if he's sent to Jordan but THEY DO NOT BELIEVE HE WILL GET A FAIR TRIAL because they think they'll use evidence against him that's been obtained by torture.

Now, like the majority of the British public, I couldn't care less what happens to the scum once he's in Jordan; they can boil him in oil for all I care. He's an asylum seeker who's consistently abused our hospitality and he's deemed to be a serious security threat to this country. Why are you ducking and diving on this? Is it because you don't want to admit that your mates in the Labour party are just as gutless as the Tories and LibDems on this issue, as evidenced by their total silence on this thread?

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

...and yet again, Mancie, you're only telling us half the story. Yes, the ECHR think he will get fair treatment if he's sent to Jordan but THEY DO NOT BELIEVE HE WILL GET A FAIR TRIAL because they think they'll use evidence against that's been obtained by torture.

No mate.. it is the UK judge who did not believe he would get a fair trial..this latest ruling was made in an UK court under complete UK control.
I think the first BBC report was misleading by not stating that the judgement was made by an UK judge..and today there has been no mention of the ECHR by the government



Earlier this year, judges at the European Court in Strasbourg ruled the cleric would not face ill-treatment if returned to Jordan, citing assurances outlined in a UK-Jordan agreement.

But the judge ( should say the UK judge ..not the ECHR judge) did not believe he would get a fair trial because a Jordanian court could use evidence against Abu Qatada that had been obtained from the torture of others.

See what i'm saying ?

[cashman]

As far as i'm aware Mancie is correct wi this.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

The European Court of Human Rights, echoing the concerns of the UK's own Court of Appeal, said the preacher would be treated well if returned - but there was one big problem.

In their judgement they said that it doesn't matter what someone has done, modern nations that believe in the rule of law cannot send people back to regimes that torture - and then use that evidence against other suspects.

Well, that's not the way I read it. Yes, a UK judge did say yesterday he couldn't be deported because torture-based evidence would be used against him, but the ECHR have already said the same thing. Listen, mate, I'm taking this info from the BBC and they don't get things wrong. It's more than the Director General's jobs worth!

Anyway, m'lud, I refer to my original point that in 2009 the Law Lords ruled that upholding the principle of a fair trial in another jurisdiction “does not require the UK to retain, to the detriment of national security, a terrorist suspect”. If we were not beholden to the ECHR we could have deported him there and then. Furthermore, if the government does manage to get SIAC to change their mind, we'll still have to go back to the ECHR before we can deport him. If Blair hadn't enshrined their rulings in British law we wouldn't have all this hassle!

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

In 2009 the Law Lords ruled that upholding the principle of a fair trial in another jurisdiction “does not require the UK to retain, to the detriment of national security, a terrorist suspect”. If we were not beholden to the ECHR we could have deported him there and then.

However, the ECHR ruled in January this year that he should not be deported because he risks standing trial on evidence that was obtained by torture. To meet the concerns of the ECHR, Theresa May, obtained assurances from Jordan that he would not face an unfair trial. Qatada was allowed to challenge those new assurances at the Special Immigration Appeals Commission (Siac), which has now ruled it is unsafe for him to return.

So as I say, Mancie, if we had nothing to do with the ECHR we could've deported him three years ago!

These "Law Lords" ... do they act as a supreme court? And what use are they if their rulings can be overruled or ignored, especially by an extra-territorial body? And why should Abu Qatada's case be of any concern to the ECHR? As far as I am aware, Jordan is not a memeber of the EU.

As a sort of related aside: I was watching the CBC news the other nite and they were covering a story detailing the growth of Golden Dawn support groups in the Canadian Greek community. So I checked out the Golden Dawn. A bunch of Greek nazis, right. I'm anti-fascist ... don't remember the war, but I was conceived while it was still going on. One would think a global dust up like that would have seen the end of jackboots, neat uniforms, and the bad stuff that went along with all that. But the Greeks, however nazi they become, are no threat to the rest of the world ... they're a joke really ... picturesque and all that (well, if you forget about the hairy women), but they don't start alarm bells ringing in the Pentagon. Anyhow, it seems to me (and remember, I'm looking in from the outside) that the greatest friend to the growth of Nationalism and right-wing extremist groups is the EU. And, of course, the democracies who seem bent on sacrificing their national identity as they rush headlong to show how liberal and all-embracing they are towards immgrants. Europe is a continent of nations ... and they don't really need immigrants like we do this side of the pond. We need immigrants over here. Over there, the immigrants need you. But I'm wandering ....