Accrington Pals Commemorative Ale

[dusty mears]

Having read some of the comments on “Small Beer,” I’m reminded why I no longer bother with this site – too many armchair trolling, opinionated, scrimshankers, gobbing off about things they know little fact about. A bit behind with this “story” too.

The idea for an Ale came about in 2012. Can’t remember if it was mine or my friend’s idea now. We did some local research and came across Irwell Works Brewery who could do what we wanted, keen to support the idea, even an Accrington connection. The label names, images are chosen by us, Irwell put them into production. We commissioned them to produce the labels/Ale exclusively for us. They are not making a "fat profit." But they are running a business

The Ale was actually launched in 2013 at the Food Festival – 3 labels

Lest We Forget, Over the Top and Lions Led by Donkeys; featuring a photo of my Great Uncle Walter Holmes. My project, my prerogative.

2014 – 3 new labels launched. Kings Shilling, Kitchener’s Call Up and Turners Tales; featuring a photo of the late William Turner. Mrs Turner was over the moon with the suggestion and gave it her full support.

2015 – 3 new labels. Brothers In Arms (photo 3 brothers from Accrington), Hill 10 (a cemetery in Turkey where a 15 year old Accrington boy is buried); Gallantry at Gallipoli (photo Edwin Taylor). The beer labels ARE NOT about individual soldier’s names – read them !!

2014 – invited to Westminster by Graham Jones, MP to launch one of the Commemorative Ales in the Strangers Bar. It went on sale 1 July. It was in the press. Didn’t see a song and dance about that !

Whilst developing the 2015 labels, Graham was emailing me regards his Grandfather. It was my suggestion that Edwin feature. No he didn’t do anything any more important than any other who served. He was an ordinary bloke, lucky to get away with his life, as was the case with many comrades.

Studio25 / Less – it is not feasible to do individual labels. We’re not sat at home with a pc and printer making labels for half a dozen pots of jam. These are run off in hundreds. Each label has to be put together first. There are no bar codes

Margaret Pilkington – you should read some of what you have written – contradictory and utter nonsense.

Guinness – thank you. The Centenary Commemoration is a national programme of 2014, 2016 and 2018. As pointed out, 1 July 2016 will be 100 years since 720 men went over the top.

Eric – good on you over in Canada. Wynonie, Cashman – thank you too.

The Ale has actually received publicity since 2013 – it was in the local papers. To the other comments, why is Graham in the paper suddenly “commercial, publicity stunt” when it’s been in the press before? Keep up people please.

The Commemorative Ale IS NOT a commercial enterprise, a business, nor masquerading as a charity or even a charity. My friend and I got it off the ground using thousands of our own money to buy stock, etc. We’ve only recently got our outlay back and the Ale nicely paying for itself. We have all done it as volunteers, not taking one penny from it. We’re doing it at our own expense – driving here, there and everywhere to set up stalls in all weathers. We don’t take a wage or expenses. We are not using the Pals as an advertising stunt, they sadly don’t need any advertising. As someone who had a relative serve with the Pals and then killed, I take offence at those suggestions.

The Ale has sold in its thousands, gone all over the country and is even international – Australia, America, Canada, Dubai, France, Germany, Portugal, Spain, South Africa - those are just the countries we know of. Recent enquiries from Austria and Singapore to buy it.

“Commercial” and “advertising stunt” are in my view, along the lines of Grants Bar who’ve made a Pals beer and the “Pals themed” bar recently opened in the town centre, the Singleton’s cheese. They’re in it to make money. We’re in it to generate funding to pay for small local projects. How is volunteers – not taking a penny - generate funds - commercial ? Thank god you’re not running the country !

As Father’s already said, the Ale hasn’t received this negative, cynical whinging on Facebook or other social media sites. Quite the contrary. It's been welll supported. The sales show that too. Referring to it as "small beer" I find derogatory.

I wanted to make the Ales of interest, real, to keep memories of all alive, lest we forget – end of.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Well, thank you for the information.
I personally make comments on the information that I have.
If you think what I have posted is contradictory and utter nonsense, then that is your opinion, and you are allowed an opinion,(as I am....they are both valid) but you would have to enlighten me as to how you think it was contradictory.
Had I had the information that you have now posted, then maybe my opinions would have been different. I did not have the information....it might have been in the Observer, but not formatted as clearly as you have done in your post.

As for your comment about whinging........I did not consider the comments to be whinging....just opinions.
Obviously this venture is your baby, your passion and your defensive stance is understandable.
I have a great deal of respect for the work that has been done by your father and others to ensure the facts about the local men who fought in the conflict is not forgotten.
Indeed there have been times when I have tried to help in this endeavour(you can confirm this with him if you wish).
With all this in mind.....I wish you well with your fund raising.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by dusty mears

Having read some of the comments on “Small Beer,” I’m reminded why I no longer bother with this site – too many armchair trolling, opinionated, scrimshankers, gobbing off about things they know little fact about. A bit behind with this “story” too.

The idea for an Ale came about in 2012. Can’t remember if it was mine or my friend’s idea now. We did some local research and came across Irwell Works Brewery who could do what we wanted, keen to support the idea, even an Accrington connection. The label names, images are chosen by us, Irwell put them into production. We commissioned them to produce the labels/Ale exclusively for us. They are not making a "fat profit." But they are running a business

The Ale was actually launched in 2013 at the Food Festival – 3 labels

Lest We Forget, Over the Top and Lions Led by Donkeys; featuring a photo of my Great Uncle Walter Holmes. My project, my prerogative.

2014 – 3 new labels launched. Kings Shilling, Kitchener’s Call Up and Turners Tales; featuring a photo of the late William Turner. Mrs Turner was over the moon with the suggestion and gave it her full support.

2015 – 3 new labels. Brothers In Arms (photo 3 brothers from Accrington), Hill 10 (a cemetery in Turkey where a 15 year old Accrington boy is buried); Gallantry at Gallipoli (photo Edwin Taylor). The beer labels ARE NOT about individual soldier’s names – read them !!

2014 – invited to Westminster by Graham Jones, MP to launch one of the Commemorative Ales in the Strangers Bar. It went on sale 1 July. It was in the press. Didn’t see a song and dance about that !

Whilst developing the 2015 labels, Graham was emailing me regards his Grandfather. It was my suggestion that Edwin feature. No he didn’t do anything any more important than any other who served. He was an ordinary bloke, lucky to get away with his life, as was the case with many comrades.

Studio25 / Less – it is not feasible to do individual labels. We’re not sat at home with a pc and printer making labels for half a dozen pots of jam. These are run off in hundreds. Each label has to be put together first. There are no bar codes

Margaret Pilkington – you should read some of what you have written – contradictory and utter nonsense.

Guinness – thank you. The Centenary Commemoration is a national programme of 2014, 2016 and 2018. As pointed out, 1 July 2016 will be 100 years since 720 men went over the top.

Eric – good on you over in Canada. Wynonie, Cashman – thank you too.

The Ale has actually received publicity since 2013 – it was in the local papers. To the other comments, why is Graham in the paper suddenly “commercial, publicity stunt” when it’s been in the press before? Keep up people please.

The Commemorative Ale IS NOT a commercial enterprise, a business, nor masquerading as a charity or even a charity. My friend and I got it off the ground using thousands of our own money to buy stock, etc. We’ve only recently got our outlay back and the Ale nicely paying for itself. We have all done it as volunteers, not taking one penny from it. We’re doing it at our own expense – driving here, there and everywhere to set up stalls in all weathers. We don’t take a wage or expenses. We are not using the Pals as an advertising stunt, they sadly don’t need any advertising. As someone who had a relative serve with the Pals and then killed, I take offence at those suggestions.

The Ale has sold in its thousands, gone all over the country and is even international – Australia, America, Canada, Dubai, France, Germany, Portugal, Spain, South Africa - those are just the countries we know of. Recent enquiries from Austria and Singapore to buy it.

“Commercial” and “advertising stunt” are in my view, along the lines of Grants Bar who’ve made a Pals beer and the “Pals themed” bar recently opened in the town centre, the Singleton’s cheese. They’re in it to make money. We’re in it to generate funding to pay for small local projects. How is volunteers – not taking a penny - generate funds - commercial ? Thank god you’re not running the country !

As Father’s already said, the Ale hasn’t received this negative, cynical whinging on Facebook or other social media sites. Quite the contrary. It's been welll supported. The sales show that too. Referring to it as "small beer" I find derogatory.

I wanted to make the Ales of interest, real, to keep memories of all alive, lest we forget – end of.

Good one daughter, thas towd um better n I could, 1st paragraph sums it up a treat.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Maybe if the story of the ales had been put in the local paper as is laid out in this first post, there would have been a clearer picture of the situation.
I read the article in the observer and it was not clear how the ales had come about...or that it was not a commercial venture.
It mentioned volunteers, but not I what they were doing, or what their input was.

[Michael1954]

You and your father are doing excellent work. I'm a little thirsty after reading that, so a glass of the Ale would go down a treat.

[RainbowSix]

Originally Posted by dusty mears

about things they know little fact about.

It think this may have been your initial problem, perhaps it would have been better for you had you made people aware of the facts.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

It think this may have been your initial problem, perhaps it would have been better for you had you made people aware of the facts.

There was no initial problem, there had been articles in the Observer before about the Pals Ales, there was nothing said until the article which featured Graham Jones. And Why should Accy Web be kept informed of all the work that has & is being done to comemorate July 1st 1916. When all it does is bring about posts about small beer, I bet now that the facts are know, some posters are wishing they'd never posted.
I've just got back from the bookbinders with the Pals commemorative books for July 1st 1916, and its cost me over 300 quid. And before you ask, no I'm not Posting any picures of them, why should I.
If you want to know whats going on for the upcoming centeneries they will be on Hyndburn Chat.

[Margaret Pilkington]

.Because there are members who are interested in the Pals Story....the sacrifices made by these local men.
And as for some of us wishing we had never posted....I stand by every word in my posts.

As for the promotion of the centenaries, the information about these should be posted wherever people might best access it.
I will certainly not be able to access this information because I am not a Facebook member.
You may think that this is no real loss.....you are entitled to your opinion.

This post has a flavour of 'it's my ball and I am taking it home'.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

.Because there are members who are interested in the Pals Story....the sacrifices made by these local men.
And as for some of us wishing we had never posted....I stand by every word in my posts.

As for the promotion of the centenaries, the information about these should be posted wherever people might best access it.
I will certainly not be able to access this information because I am not a Facebook member.
You may think that this is no real loss.....you are entitled to your opinion.

This post has a flavour of 'it's my ball and I am taking it home'.

Sorry Margaret if it sounds like my ball and I'm taking it home. I'm not a wordsmith or a diplomat, just a researcher, a job I know I'm good at. I'm doing it because I enjoy it, it keeps me occupied.

I've spent 25 years working on Accrington's Heroes, and finishing the Job I promised Bill Turner as he lay dying in hospital.
The reason I'm so possesive are the number of vultures out there who would love to get their hands on it, copy it and claim it as their work. I've met the buggers, they've read Bill Turners book and suddenly they've bcome an expert on the Pals. Why let the truth get in the way of a good story, I'm not doing this to feed their ego's.
When I was at the bookbinders we got talking about errors in books, and he remarked on the number of glaring errors in a book he has just done for Burnley, but he is only paid to bind them.
Until Bill Turner started to work on the Pals story there had been no mention of them in the newpapers after the 50th aniversay, but for Bill Turner what would Accrington be commemorating now, nobody would have a clue. None of this would be on Accy web or any other web site.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I am not a wordsmith either....nor a diplomat.
I just say it how I see it. I cannot apologise for my honesty.
I know the work that has been done to bring these men to the remembrance that they deserve. I value what you have been involved in.....and respect your work and that of Bill Turner to make sure these heroes(for that is what they are) are recognised, remembered and honoured.
But surely the way to keep their deeds alive, they need to be promoted on every site that will host the information.
To let what is a petty dispute(although I do not see it as a dispute) get in the way of this is short sighted, and cutting your nose off to spite your face.

These are my opinions, you do not have to agree with them, but I would say this if you were in front of me right now.....and that is not the act of someone who is a scrimshanker, a whinger or a troll.
I hope the ale and your efforts to ensure a good result for the charity do well.
The information which your daughter supplied about the efforts meant that I was better able to understand what had gone into this charity....But I still stand by my posts. It would be dishonest and contradictory to do otherwise.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by dusty mears

The Ale has sold in its thousands, gone all over the country and is even international – Australia, America, Canada, Dubai, France, Germany, Portugal, Spain, South Africa - those are just the countries we know of. Recent enquiries from Austria and Singapore to buy it.

As Father’s already said, the Ale hasn’t received this negative, cynical whinging on Facebook or other social media sites. Quite the contrary. It's been welll supported. The sales show that too. Referring to it as "small beer" I find derogatory.

I wanted to make the Ales of interest, real, to keep memories of all alive, lest we forget – end of.

Put Wales on that list too Dusty, I took some of the triple packs down to the Lion in Tudweiliog last year.

[Morecambe Ex Pat]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Until Bill Turner started to work on the Pals story there had been no mention of them in the newpapers after the 50th aniversay, but for Bill Turner what would Accrington be commemorating now, nobody would have a clue. None of this would be on Accy web or any other web site.

I sincerely hope that you have made provision for your valuable research to be published when you are no longer with us. If not, the inaccuracies will live on and be quoted repeatedly and this important chapter of our past will be badly archived.

[Less]

[QUOTE=Retlaw;1142012I bet now that the facts are know, some posters are wishing they'd never posted.
[/QUOTE]

I bet that had the facts that have now been described had been published in the first place, the article would have been greeted far better than it was?

If you are hinting that I may have some regrets, then yes, you are correct.

I regret the fact that all those years of research are not being published, the hard work you have put in should get all the recognition it deserves.

[Michael1954]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Sorry Margaret if it sounds like my ball and I'm taking it home. I'm not a wordsmith or a diplomat, just a researcher, a job I know I'm good at. I'm doing it because I enjoy it, it keeps me occupied.

I've spent 25 years working on Accrington's Heroes, and finishing the Job I promised Bill Turner as he lay dying in hospital.
The reason I'm so possesive are the number of vultures out there who would love to get their hands on it, copy it and claim it as their work. I've met the buggers, they've read Bill Turners book and suddenly they've bcome an expert on the Pals. Why let the truth get in the way of a good story, I'm not doing this to feed their ego's.
When I was at the bookbinders we got talking about errors in books, and he remarked on the number of glaring errors in a book he has just done for Burnley, but he is only paid to bind them.

I agree with Less.

Also, if you published under your name, how could anyone copy it and claim it as their own? Yours would be the definitive account of the Pals for generations to enjoy.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Michael1954

I agree with Less.

Also, if you published under your name, how could anyone copy it and claim it as their own? Yours would be the definitive account of the Pals for generations to enjoy.

All I can say to that is *******. If you look in Bill Turners book on the Pals, page 212 you will see the start of a list of names and numbers of those who served in the 11th East Lancs, supplied to Bill by Fergus Read, that original hand written list, was given to me by Fergus over 20 years ago and is now in a file box under my desk. Look on a certain web site and you will see a list of names and numbers of men in the same regiment. When I showed that to Bill some years ago he went ballistic, and gave the owner a right going over. So how did he get those names & numbers when I have the original, and Fergus never showed it to any one else. Now that Bills dead he claims its all his own work, and has threatened me with legal action.
He doesn't come on here often, but now I've posted this he will be back, one of his spies will inform him.
Him and those two clowns in Chorley plus a couple more so called experts in Acc, are the reasons I will wipe my discs clean before I will boost their ego's.
By the way copy right laws are amongst the most difficult cases to prove. You can find most of what you want on the internet these days, any number of sites showing the same info, (different authors) so whose work is it.