Accrington Pals project

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Andrew Jackson

Gayle,
I'd support the project, covering as it does an area which up to now has been largely neglected.
I would though suggest that you take in the impact of the town's war dead as a whole. Although the devastating losses suffered by the Pals on 1st July 1916 had a traumatic effect on the town at the time, they didn't amount to the loss of a generation. The casualty rate among Accrington men in 1917 and 1918 equalled and even surpassed that of 1916.
Although we are right to commemorate the Pals, in doing so we should never forget the majority of Accrington men who served and died with other units.
I look forward to hearing more about the project, and hope to be involved in it.
Kind regards,
Andrew

Thank You.

[entwisi]

it always worries me when we start talking 'socio-economic'. Thats business bull**** for 'the real world'. I have a LOT of respect for those who fought and died in teh 2 world wars(My dad fought in far east in WW2). those of us with common sense already know that the women left behind were hero's as much as those fightng in foreign fields. They worked hard and continued to bring up families in what were despicable conditions when compared with today.

Why do we feel the need to waste countless thousands of pounds that could be used far more efficiently because someone feels we need to have this obscure understanding of what in reality we all know. Life was hard, they got on with it without consideration of what someone 90 years later would give the title of "A Socio-economic study of the effect of WW1 on Accrington".

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Andrew Jackson

Although the devastating losses suffered by the Pals on 1st July 1916 had a traumatic effect on the town at the time, they didn't amount to the loss of a generation.

It was the time scale that made the Accrington Pals so noteworthy, and I disagree, it was a whole generation of men that was killed in such a few short hours, and hence were unable to afterwards fulfil their roles as sons/husbands/fathers etc. afterwards.

[steeljack]

anyone interested in the history of WW1 should check out a book called "Paris1919" by Margaret Mcmillan ,a history proffesor at one of Toronto's universities , it gives a great insight about all the scheming/wheeling / dealing and backstabbing that went on by the politicians of all the allied countries after the armistice at the Paris peace conference ,it explains the economic reasons that led up to WW2 (excessive reparations etc) its available in paperback and in my opinion (which is worth nowt) should be used in schools as a history textbook and should be compulsory for any politician

[garinda]

Originally Posted by entwisi

it always worries me when we start talking 'socio-economic'. Thats business bull**** for 'the real world'. I have a LOT of respect for those who fought and died in teh 2 world wars(My dad fought in far east in WW2). those of us with common sense already know that the women left behind were hero's as much as those fightng in foreign fields. They worked hard and continued to bring up families in what were despicable conditions when compared with today.

Why do we feel the need to waste countless thousands of pounds that could be used far more efficiently because someone feels we need to have this obscure understanding of what in reality we all know. Life was hard, they got on with it without consideration of what someone 90 years later would give the title of "A Socio-economic study of the effect of WW1 on Accrington".

...because a lot of people still don't know.

My Mum was born after her Dad was killed in Normandy, aged twenty two. The consequences of war still live on for a lot of people, and the sacrifices made by both men and women should never be forgotten, no matter how many years later.

Blood wasn't shed in vain, and if this funding can enlighten even one person so much the better.

[katex]

I think it is a lovely idea Gayle, albeit on the back of the Accrington Pals, would find it very interesting to see how the town's male population has recovered from both the losses in the 2 world wars and anecdotes from the women and children after the event and how they got on with their lives. Surely, someone has written a book somewhere on this subject, although not necessarily Accrington.

Think might be a good idea to talk to all the football widows this week too >> bet some good stories there

[Bazf]

Blood wasn't shed in vain, and if this funding can enlighten even one person so much the better.

Enlighten them to what?

[katex]

Originally Posted by kash

i think that the money should be spent on bringing the accy community together by showing how similar islam and christianity are. especially with the divides in todays society

People always have ideas on how funding can be spent in a better way Kash, and, yes, I agree at some stage what you suggest is a good idea. I would like to know a little more of islamic and muslim women, 'cause I have created in my mind, this picture of subservience, fixed marriages, ostracism if refusal to comply, the pressure to produce a son, to wear those restrictive garments
most of the time and to have no opinions of your own. All very scarey to me.

YES, YES, I know this is probably not the case so pleeese don't come back at me, 'cause some will be absolute rubbish, but that's why I would support you in this idea at some stage.

Back to the thread however; I would just see it as an enjoyable part of our history in Human Geography and as you can see by the Nostalgic threads on here, lots of us do enjoy this. I believe that you can live better in the present if you know something of the past and the history of your surroundings and maybe the word 'enlighten' can be looked at from two different aspects.

After all, would the Accy football fans be celebrating so much this week if they had not been enlightened on the history of the club and it's ups and downs.

So let's all be taught how we have recovered from awful events in the town's history and celebrate this. Mines a bacardi and coke in The Stag

[katex]

Originally Posted by kash

i think that the money should be spent on bringing the accy community together by showing how similar islam and christianity are. especially with the divides in todays society

People always have ideas on how funding can be spent in a better way Kash, and, yes, I agree at some stage what you suggest is a good idea. I would like to know a little more of islamic and muslim women, 'cause I have created in my mind, this picture of subservience, fixed marriages, ostracism if refusal to comply, the pressure to produce a son, to wear those restrictive garments
most of the time and to have no opinions of your own. All very scarey to me.

YES, YES, I know this is probably not the case so pleeese don't come back at me, 'cause some will be absolute rubbish, but that's why I would support you in this idea at some stage.

Back to the thread however; I would just see it as an enjoyable part of our history in Human Geography and as you can see by the Nostalgic threads on here, lots of us do enjoy this. I believe that you can live better in the present if you know something of the past and the history of your surroundings and maybe the word 'enlighten' can be looked at from two different aspects.

After all, would the Accy football fans be celebrating so much this week if they had not been enlightened on the history of the club and it's ups and downs.

So let's all be taught how we have recovered from awful events in the town's history and celebrate this. Mines a bacardi and coke in The Stag

[katex]

Originally Posted by kash

i think that the money should be spent on bringing the accy community together by showing how similar islam and christianity are. especially with the divides in todays society

People always have ideas on how funding can be spent in a better way Kash, and, yes, I agree at some stage what you suggest is a good idea. I would like to know a little more of islamic and muslim women, 'cause I have created in my mind, this picture of subservience, fixed marriages, ostracism if refusal to comply, the pressure to produce a son, to wear those restrictive garments
most of the time and to have no opinions of your own. All very scarey to me.

YES, YES, I know this is probably not the case so pleeese don't come back at me, 'cause some will be absolute rubbish, but that's why I would support you in this idea at some stage.

Back to the thread however; I would just see it as an enjoyable part of our history in Human Geography and as you can see by the Nostalgic threads on here, lots of us do enjoy this. I believe that you can live better in the present if you know something of the past and the history of your surroundings and maybe the word 'enlighten' can be looked at from two different aspects.

After all, would the Accy football fans be celebrating so much this week if they had not been enlightened on the history of the club and it's ups and downs.

So let's all be taught how we have recovered from awful events in the town's history and celebrate this. Mines a bacardi and coke in The Stag

[katex]

Oh sugar !!!! How did that triple happen !!! Kept telling me network error.
Please delete two mods. before all opponents to my opinion tell me how stupid I am

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bazf

Enlighten them to what?

That the freedoms we enjoy today were hard won, at the cost of a lot of people's lives. Both those that gave their lives and those that were left behind, incuding my Mum who grew up without her Dad.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by kash

i think that the money should be spent on bringing the accy community together by showing how similar islam and christianity are. especially with the divides in todays society

There is already a lot of money due to come into this area this year because it is the year of the Festival of Muslim Cultures. From what I understand there are going to be many events bringing the accy community together and celebrating the similarities and diversity between the cultures.

It's not a case of getting some money and having to choose which one we want to spend it on, it's a case of saying shall we go for some funding for an Accrington Pals project? The two things are not the same issue or the same pot of money for that matter!

[SPUGGIE J]

Originally Posted by steeljack

anyone interested in the history of WW1 should check out a book called "Paris1919" by Margaret Mcmillan ,a history proffesor at one of Toronto's universities , it gives a great insight about all the scheming/wheeling / dealing and backstabbing that went on by the politicians of all the allied countries after the armistice at the Paris peace conference ,it explains the economic reasons that led up to WW2 (excessive reparations etc) its available in paperback and in my opinion (which is worth nowt) should be used in schools as a history textbook and should be compulsory for any politician

You forgot the bit about the American General that forcast what would happen (Pershing) and that the squabbling over reperations in part lead to the USA not joining the League of Nations.

[Bazf]

Originally Posted by garinda

That the freedoms we enjoy today were hard won, at the cost of a lot of people's lives. Both those that gave their lives and those that were left behind, incuding my Mum who grew up without her Dad.

Thats not what the project is about, it going to tell us how the town changed for women, you already know this, how is that going to enlighten someone unless your going to get an anti war agenda which I don't think the pc brigade in Accy would even dare to surgest.