Accrington Pals project - Page 4

Gayle · 19-04-2006, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busman747

As Gayle may possibly be aware of, I am against the use of finances dished out by quango's in a way that takes their fancy - HOWEVER! I feel that we are short of information here and if Gayle knows the answers?

1) If a grant is received, will it pay in part for someones wages?

It will pay for some freelance workers to deliver workshops in schools, do the research, write the education packs and will pay local businesses who will do the printing and web design. All the money will come into the local economy as HWF is non profit making and made up of all volunteers (although having said that, if any of them actually 'deliver' any of the work they will be paid the fair rate for it). I personally get paid £200 per month for working for the forum but that's already covered by funding that we got from the Big Lottery ages ago for that purpose. If I was to deliver any workshops then I'd get paid the going workshop rate as would anybody else who was doing the work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busman747

2) What figure are we talking about, £hundreds or £thousands?

The total that we are applying for is in the region of £25k - that will all go into the local economy as described above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busman747

3) Who ARE The Hyndburn Womens Forum? (Another of my pet hates is predudice against men like "Womens Institute," "Shelter for Battered Wives" (I witnessed the wounds today of a man that was hit repeatedly by his "partner" who also trashed their car and refused to report it, the idiot is returning to the house tonight because she phoned to say "sorry!" ) and all the other quango financed institutions that are aimed at women only.

Hyndburn Women's Forum was formed about 12 years ago. Their aim at that time was to put on an event to celebrate International Women's Day on 8th March each year. Now, it just happens to be the name of the group of women who get together to organise various community events - last year we did the VE/VJ event at the Town Hall which wasn't a specifically women's orientated event. If we raise any money through raffles and stuff it tends to be donated to the Women's Centre but that's not what we're about. Basically, you need to be a group formed by constitution to go for any of this sort of funding so we sort of use it for those means. Our basic aim, I guess you could say, is celebrating women - that's why the main focus of this project would be to look at the women who held it all together back home whilst the men went off to war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by busman747

4) How will information be attained? - - - and

Not sure what your question is but we'll be looking at interviewing descendents of the Pals and people who have stories to tell about them. We'll be using some of the regular resources i.e. library and internet as well but as our focus is on the women they won't tell us everything that we'll need to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by busman747

5) Lastly, will the information received become public knowledge - in a book? local press? internet?

Part of the funding is to produce an education pack which will be held at local libraries and issued to schools. It's also hoped that it will be transfered on to a website aimed at the education angle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by busman747

If the answers to these questions are favourable, then you have my full support Gayle

Hope that helps.

Busman747 · 19-04-2006, 19:59

It will pay for some freelance workers to deliver workshops in schools, do the research, write the education packs and will pay local businesses who will do the printing and web design.

I appreciate your honesty Gayle in answering my questions but to me it is just a way of giving funds to those that are in favour with political parties or politicians that seek future favours from business people.

HWF is non profit making and made up of all volunteers

So what exactly will the HWF be doing if they are non-payed volunteers?

I personally get paid £200 per month for working for the forum

Not bad for a forum that is non-profit making, Do you realise that you are earning 25% of MY full time wages - and being paid from a group that do not make a profit?

but that's already covered by funding that we got from the Big Lottery ages ago for that purpose.

The lottery has such a big turnover simply because many dream of winning the "big one" - and to many, getting £50-00 extra a week would be a dream come true.

Their aim at that time was to put on an event to celebrate International Women's Day on 8th March each year.

I wonder how much is funded to celebrate St. Georges Day this year?

Sorry Gayle, I would love to support you but I personally feel that the whole project is motivated by people including yourself that are doing it for personal gain and using up funds that SHOULD NOT have been released by central government. Quango's should NOT be fed money like this especially when the finances of the nation are in such a critical state. Monies from Gordon Brown should be fed into local councils to ensure that tangible priorities like refuse, road repairs, hospices, the list is endless and NHS are topped up in order to maintain the standards we and our parents have paid for all our lives.

Take away the quango's = Billions more into OUR economy, paying for the things that really matter. THIS is why your proposal of a panopticon was rejected by the majority of Accy webbers.

Gayle · 19-04-2006, 20:20

It will pay for some freelance workers to deliver workshops in schools, do the research, write the education packs and will pay local businesses who will do the printing and web design.

I appreciate your honesty Gayle in answering my questions but to me it is just a way of giving funds to those that are in favour with political parties or politicians that seek future favours from business people.

Sorry, but that bit's just not true.

HWF is non profit making and made up of all volunteers

So what exactly will the HWF be doing if they are non-payed volunteers?

The people who represent the committee of HWF are volunteers in the same way that other people volunteer for community groups - they're either retired or they have other full time jobs.

I personally get paid £200 per month for working for the forum

Not bad for a forum that is non-profit making, Do you realise that you are earning 25% of MY full time wages - and being paid from a group that do not make a profit?

I work very hard for HWF - I am being honest about what I get paid for them. And I only get paid for eight months out of twelve.

but that's already covered by funding that we got from the Big Lottery ages ago for that purpose.

The lottery has such a big turnover simply because many dream of winning the "big one" - and to many, getting £50-00 extra a week would be a dream come true.

I agree but people play the lottery because they want to win millions. The money that is raised is then available for people to apply for. Hyndburn is one of the least well funded places in the country because local community groups don't apply for funding. That means that money that people round here pay into the lottery is going to other areas of the country so this area is well and truly missing out.

Their aim at that time was to put on an event to celebrate International Women's Day on 8th March each year.

I wonder how much is funded to celebrate St. Georges Day this year?

I don't know - we didn't apply for anything but then again, did any other local group? I suppose we could do in future years. It wasn't a concious decision to ignore St George's Day but HWF can't do everything.

Sorry Gayle, I would love to support you but I personally feel that the whole project is motivated by people including yourself that are doing it for personal gain and using up funds that SHOULD NOT have been released by central government.

Heritage funding is also lottery funded so not central government at all.

Quango's should NOT be fed money like this especially when the finances of the nation are in such a critical state.

Obviously understand your dislike of Quangos - it puts an unnecessary level of adminstration in that wastes money and shouldn't be there in the first place. I can't argue with you on that but the fact is that they are there and to get some of the money back into the area you have to work the system.

Monies from Gordon Brown should be fed into local councils to ensure that tangible priorities like refuse, road repairs, hospices, the list is endless and NHS are topped up in order to maintain the standards we and our parents have paid for all our lives.

Take away the quango's = Billions more into OUR economy, paying for the things that really matter.

Again, can't argue but money has been allocated to certain pots - i.e. sports, arts, culture etc - it's not a case of us on the ground saying can we have this money but we don't want to spend it on sports, arts, culture, we want to spend it on hospitals etc. It's a case of the money being made available for specific reasons and people tapping into that. Whilst I can't argue that hospitals, road repairs etc are far more important than arts and sport, we aren't taking it from pots that have been allocated to those things.

THIS is why your proposal of a panopticon was rejected by the majority of Accy webbers.

Sorry, but that's the same argument. Whether you agree with the way the funding is structured in this country or not, isn't the issue here. The money for the panopticon was from a pot of money that had already been allocated to the arts whether we used it or not. By us not using it, it didn't get ploughed into a hospital it most probably will be reallocated to an alternative art project somewhere else in the country.

Busman747 · 19-04-2006, 20:28

Well answered Gayle Won't change my mind on central government policies or quango's - but it is refreshing to hear from a politician-to-be that is open and honest - -

Gayle · 19-04-2006, 20:34

Thank you and I don't disagree with you about quangos, I just believe that you should work the system if the system can't be changed. If the money's out there I think as much as possible should be brought into our area and not to fund more quangos but to actually make a difference - i.e. either paying for local services and/or put on events that are relevant to local people.

Busman747 · 19-04-2006, 20:49

So when is a political party going to scrap these freebies to middle class PC minded idiots that are bringing our country down? Ms Blair definately included!

Gayle · 19-04-2006, 20:58

Not a question I can answer I'm afraid. Like I said, I'm just working a system that's already there!

garinda · 19-04-2006, 21:24

Without wishing to appear as a stooge for Gayle, as we have vastly differing opinions on a number of issues, if that is the way funding is handed out, without people like her looking for inventive ways to secure money for the borough, Hyndburn would miss out yet again, and I do think the project sounds worthwile, for us and future generations.

As for the comments about Hyndburn Women's Forum. I don't suppose there is anything to stop somebody from starting a men's forum, if they see fit. After all our forefathers started Working Men's Clubs all over Hyndburn.

Busman747 · 19-04-2006, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

I don't suppose there is anything to stop somebody from starting a men's forum, if they see fit. After all our forefathers started Working Men's Clubs all over Hyndburn.

Yes but "men only" bars in working mens clubs were banned many years ago because they were "sexist!"

garinda · 19-04-2006, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busman747

Yes but "men only" bars in working mens clubs were banned many years ago because they were "sexist!"

You are right. Although Gayle said that the Hyndburn Women's Forum's events are open to all, including men, can the male of the species join?

I presume they legally could....go on Busman, give it a try.

WillowTheWhisp · 24-04-2006, 08:12

There are a couple of things that bother me about this project, one being the fact that we are talking about something which happened almost a century ago. It isn't possible to do any first hand research at this stage now, the best you could do is research the research which has already been done, or interview those descendants who may well have opinions on the subject but who can't really relate to the impact of the events at the time.

Interviewing descendants is all very well but their views will be coloured by their own personal opinions and not necessarily have much connection to the subject. For instance my late husband's greatgrandfather was one of those who were killed. His widow received a war widow's pension so the comment Spuggie made about them having to get by without any Welfare State or pension isn't accurate. But that's all we know. She died long ago and as far as we know didn't tell her children much and Peter's father died before I even met Peter so I have no idea if he had any personal memories of his father telling him what it was like. The only living relatives who I talked to several years ago hadn't much to say on the subject and they couldn't really agree on what they remembered great aunts and grannies having told them when they were younger.

As someone said earlier, it wasn't a whole generation. Not every man from Hyndburn was killed in WWI let alone in the Accrington Pals and I think we could be in danger of getting things a little out of proportion. I'm not belittling the loss of those who were killed, just trying to get things into perspective. We are so caught up with the Pals sometimes that we can forget that there were many other lives lost in wars.

I too find it incredible the way money is spent in this country when there are people in desperate need. If someone ran their household accounts the same way they'd be regarded as off their trolly. Imagine getting behind on your mortgage, having your gas and electricity cut off but going on a world cruise because there's plenty of money in the holiday pot but none left in the mortgage and utilities one so hey what the heck have the holiday because if you don't use the money for that you can't use it for anything else.

It's madness.

Neil · 24-04-2006, 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I too find it incredible the way money is spent in this country when there are people in desperate need. If someone ran their household accounts the same way they'd be regarded as off their trolly. Imagine getting behind on your mortgage, having your gas and electricity cut off but going on a world cruise because there's plenty of money in the holiday pot but none left in the mortgage and utilities one so hey what the heck have the holiday because if you don't use the money for that you can't use it for anything else.

It's madness.

Yes Willow it does look a lot like madness to most people, that is the problem, they don't understand how the "pots of money" work so are too quick to be against the money spending. That is the way it is though at the moment and we are, for now at least stuck with it. I think it would be more like madness if we all sat on our backsides and did nothing with this available money while people in neighbouring Borough's used it, don't you.

As an example: Rhyddings park has a nice new (2 year old) play area, there is nothing wrong with it and the kids enjoy using it. If there was a pot of money that was only for play areas and we could get a grant to double its size to allow more children to play, should we:

a) Say thank you very much for the money and double the play area size
or
b) Say no thanks the play area is ok and we don't want to spend any money on the play area when the paths need repairing - even though you can't give us the money to repair them and can only give it us for the play area.

I see the Panopticon has cropped up again. I wonder if anyone actually bothered to find out what people were really against. Was it the actual design, location or the fact that they thought the £50,000 (I think it was that much) could be better spent on other things?

Whoops that got a bit woffley - I best go and get some decorating done before my brain over heats.

Gayle · 24-04-2006, 11:25

There IS a pot of money available for parks at the moment. It's for councils to apply for and you'll notice that the first deadline for applications has passed at the end of march. Did our council apply for any money? You guess!!!

http://www.biglottery.org.uk/program...ople/index.htm

garinda · 24-04-2006, 12:04

The War Widow's was a pittance until the conflict in the Falklands, and was taxable until 1979. For thousands of women it didn't replace the earnings that their dead husbands would have earned in wages, and many families struggled to make ends meet.

I think the fact that this project will remember something that happened ninety years ago matters not one iota. From some of the crass comments in this post, I think it shows there is every need for more education about the Accrington Pals. It's indirectly costing us nothing.

If people wish to commemerate some other aspect of war, and remember the British people who are giving their lives even now, I hope they would show some initiative, and seek some of the funding that's available, instead of criticising this one.

WillowTheWhisp · 24-04-2006, 15:11

I understand how the pots work Neil. I just don't think it's a very good way to run the finances of a country.

What of those who were killed in the same war but weren't in the Accrington Pals? Are they any less worth remembering? What of the widows and orphans whose fathers were killed in other ways not necessarily on the front line? I'm not trying to belittle the memory of the Pals, just not wanting overemphasis on one group to belittle the loss suffered by others.

Back on the subject of the Panopticon personally I didn't like the location or any of the designs and fear that something requiring maintenance could be more of a liability than an assett. Why can't we just have a nice town centre statue?