Accrington Pals project

[Tealeaf]

Well said Willow. The way that lottery proceeds are spent is a disgrace. It involves umpteen quango's and thousands of bureaucrats, none of whom are accountable to anyone; they make crackpot decisions on expenditure mainly based upon how well a form has been completed. Is it any wonder that lottery participation is now half of when it began 10 years or so ago?

The simple solution would be to allocate post prize-proceeds to the area in which the money is raised, with maybe a bit going to a "county" pot and a bit going to a "national pot", i.e. 70% goes to Hyndburn/20% is spent on Lancashire projects and 10% goes into the national pot. The local coucil - who are answerable to the electorate - would be responsible for deciding priorities. The overall take would invariably rise because a) there would no longer be stupid expenditure on unwarrented projects and b) people would see the money spent where it was raised.

[Neil]

It was all making sense Tealeaf until the bit below

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

The local coucil - who are answerable to the electorate - would be responsible for deciding priorities.

[Tealeaf]

Well, at least the council are answerable to us. We can vote 'em out. As things stand with the current lottery "Good Causes", now't makes sense & there is bu**ar all we can do about it.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I understand how the pots work Neil. I just don't think it's a very good way to run the finances of a country.

What of those who were killed in the same war but weren't in the Accrington Pals? Are they any less worth remembering? What of the widows and orphans whose fathers were killed in other ways not necessarily on the front line? I'm not trying to belittle the memory of the Pals, just not wanting overemphasis on one group to belittle the loss suffered by others.

Yes but as Gayle has said, currently this is how financial grants are given, if no one tries to secure funding we won't get anything. You have to work within the system, unless you are planning a revolution.

Go anywhere in the country, and the two things people might have heard of regarding Accy is Accrington Stanley and the Accrington Pals. Though suprisingly some younger people in our town don't seem to know much about it.

Admitedly there are lots of people from our area who were killed in other wars and conflicts, my own twenty two year old grandfather being one, but this shouldn't be used as an argument for this project not going ahead in my humble opinion.

Remember, and learn from history, and hopefully the future will be brighter for all of us.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Maybe we could do with a revolution.

[SPUGGIE J]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Maybe we could do with a revolution.

With large or small wheel.

As G said the younger people not knowing much is a disgrace. They proberly know more about the EU than they do about the First World War.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Maybe we could do with a revolution.

You set up the guillotine, I'll grab my knitting.

Vive la revolution!

[kash]

As G said the younger people not knowing much is a disgrace. They proberly know more about the EU than they do about the First World War.

Maybe because the EU is more relevent than WWI

[Gayle]

Whilst I like the idea of your system Tealeaf there still would be some sort of application system - how else would a Council or any other body know that a group required funding. They couldn't just hand out money to all community groups without some assessment of some sort. Therefore, whether you give the power to the bureaucrats in an office elsewhere or you give the power to someone who sits in Hyndburn they would still be working a similar system.

I have sat on judging panels for the CVS in Hyndburn. We had over £50k to dish out but applications that totalled £80k, some groups were unsuccessful in getting the money they wanted. The panels were made up of local people who were involved in community groups and so in a sense the idea was that applications were being judged by your peers. The problem was that everyone had their own agenda - some people didn't like groups in a certain town getting money, some people didn't want certain ethnic groups to get anything and some people would reject forms simply for them being written in red ink or the like. At least you could argue that someone who is outside of the area is judging all applications objectively.

As for the Pals project, I understand your ideas Willow to incorporate other war victims in the project, but every project can not be all things to all people all of the time. This project has come about for a few reasons

1. Heritage lottery has made money available for this type of project throughout the country.
2. It is the 90th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme and therefore pertinent to do a project in Hyndburn around them this year.
3. Hyndburn Women's Forum focuses it's projects on things that are relevant to women therefore, a look at the way life was lived at home and the way the women coped could be of interest to the people of the town.

I don't know what the answer is to the way funds are allocated, I don't like the endless bureaucrats and quangos particularly myself but, and this is the big BUT - this money is available for this sort of project and I believe that any investment of any sort should be brought into the town.

It just so happens that I am quite good at filling in these forms and have been quite successful in getting the funding for some local groups. I see a pot of money out there and think yes, there are groups in Hyndburn that should benefit from this so I try to find a way of it happening.

The money that these groups get from funding like this doesn't just go into their bank accounts and then left there - IT GETS SPENT! It gets spent on printing, hire of venues, freelance staff and the actual infrastructure of making these things happen, etc, etc. You can be sure that the majority if not all of the funding is SPENT in Hyndburn thus benefitting the entire economy of the town.

[Gayle]

Whilst I like the idea of your system Tealeaf there still would be some sort of application system - how else would a Council or any other body know that a group required funding. They couldn't just hand out money to all community groups without some assessment of some sort. Therefore, whether you give the power to the bureaucrats in an office elsewhere or you give the power to someone who sits in Hyndburn they would still be working a similar system.

I have sat on judging panels for the CVS in Hyndburn. We had over £50k to dish out but applications that totalled £80k, some groups were unsuccessful in getting the money they wanted. The panels were made up of local people who were involved in community groups and so in a sense the idea was that applications were being judged by your peers. The problem was that everyone had their own agenda - some people didn't like groups in a certain town getting money, some people didn't want certain ethnic groups to get anything and some people would reject forms simply for them being written in red ink or the like. At least you could argue that someone who is outside of the area is judging all applications objectively.

As for the Pals project, I understand your ideas Willow to incorporate other war victims in the project, but every project can not be all things to all people all of the time. This project has come about for a few reasons

1. Heritage lottery has made money available for this type of project throughout the country.
2. It is the 90th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme and therefore pertinent to do a project in Hyndburn around them this year.
3. Hyndburn Women's Forum focuses it's projects on things that are relevant to women therefore, a look at the way life was lived at home and the way the women coped could be of interest to the people of the town.

I don't know what the answer is to the way funds are allocated, I don't like the endless bureaucrats and quangos particularly myself but, and this is the big BUT - this money is available for this sort of project and I believe that any investment of any sort should be brought into the town.

It just so happens that I am quite good at filling in these forms and have been quite successful in getting the funding for some local groups. I see a pot of money out there and think yes, there are groups in Hyndburn that should benefit from this so I try to find a way of it happening.

The money that these groups get from funding like this doesn't just go into their bank accounts and then left there - IT GETS SPENT! It gets spent on printing, hire of venues, freelance staff and the actual infrastructure of making these things happen, etc, etc. You can be sure that the majority if not all of the funding is SPENT in Hyndburn thus benefitting the entire economy of the town.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by kash

Maybe because the EU is more relevent than WWI

The EU is in part a direct result of both world wars, if you have the slightest bit of interest in the history our country.

[SPUGGIE J]

Originally Posted by kash

Maybe because the EU is more relevent than WWI

As war has always been fought for economic benifit orginisations like the EU though a pain in the Arthur at times have helped stave of little wars over resources. Germany in WW1 felt intimidated by the B.E's trade power. In WWII they wanted space to live, Japan wanted access to the resources of the Pacific. Iraq comes down in the end in some part to oil. Suez was an economic war which only ended because the USA used its economic weight to subdue it (black gold restricted). Soldiers died for the economics of the day so if lessons can be learned even if to some think its "ancient history" then those that sacrificed themselves for us can be remembered for what we gained.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

As things stand with the current lottery "Good Causes", now't makes sense & there is bu**ar all we can do about it.

That not true. People are voting for it every time they get their pound out of their pocket and buy a ticket.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I don't think people buy lottery tickets in order to support "good causes" or even care what causes it goes to, the majority of people who buy lottery tickets surely do so because they dream of winnng a million or several.

[Gayle]

I agree with you there Willow. If people wanted to give money to good causes they would hand their £1 to a charity box. They buy the lottery ticket to win a million and rationalise it in their mind by saying some of it goes to a good cause.