Aged 12 And Looking After the Family

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Tinkerbelle

Who's the people that see our children as much as the parents do? School of course. It's not just signs of physical or sexual abuse they should be watching for but the emotional abuse they kids are having to endure too.

We would like to think that teachers are in the position where they can identify this sort of thing but are they really? I mean, a teacher who has thirty children to look after does not necessarily know every single thing about them. Things could be ok on the outside and the teacher not know a thing. Also, in this day and age, they would be terrified of making accusations in case they get sued for slander.

Originally Posted by Tinkerbelle

That's her problem. As I said before take them from her she'll soon get fed up.

It's not fair, simple as that, she she shouldn't be able to keep having kids that her children are having to raise.

Yes, I totally agree in this case now that it's been highlighted. I'm not arguing with you I'm just genuinely keen to learn how social services get to the stage where they are involved in the first place.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Well. assuming the woman doesn't just give birth at home without any medical involvement surely it starts there and continues with the midwife and health visitor who can then advise on any extra help they need before it becomes a problem. I'm talking here about decent people who actually care for their children not about people who just want to produce children as slaves to serve their needs and wants.

[Tinkerbelle]

Originally Posted by Gayle

We would like to think that teachers are in the position where they can identify this sort of thing but are they really?

I was thinking about this earlier and realised it shouldn't even get as far as only being picked up at school age. There's other agencies that will have dealt with this family from midwives as soon as the baby's are born, to health visitors that see the family in their own home, their G.P's. Then their are friends, neighbours and relatives ..... surely there can't just be some of us on accyweb that think it's very, very wrong.

I don't know what it is but the more I think about it the more I do actually think it has just been sensationalised for tv. I wish I'd seen the programme to have a more informed opinion.

[accymel]

Originally Posted by Gayle

We would like to think that teachers are in the position where they can identify this sort of thing but are they really? I mean, a teacher who has thirty children to look after does not necessarily know every single thing about them. Things could be ok on the outside and the teacher not know a thing. Also, in this day and age, they would be terrified of making accusations in case they get sued for slander

Actually they do have training included for child welfare, even as a teaching assistant we were given directives on child welfare & suspect abuse, teaching assistants cannot bring their concerns directly to the parent, but to the teacher so that they can take it to the right channels or advise.

[Tinkerbelle]

It's not just the teachers though. Who looked after the babies after the birth if the mother is incapable of basic care? Were the midwives not a bit miffed at having to care for the babies? Surely the question would be asked "who's going to help you with the baby when you get home?" Did the midwives feel it was ok to send the babies home into the care of children?

The health visitors visit the home regularly, were they happy with the scene of young children being the main carers of younger siblings?

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Tinkerbelle

I don't know what it is but the more I think about it the more I do actually think it has just been sensationalised for tv.

I did say this earlier on - I don't want to sound like I'm defending the couple in any way shape or form, and I've made a point of playing devil's advocate on this thread - but one has to wonder why, if it was so awful, was it not picked up by one of the agencies earlier.

[Tinkerbelle]

Yep and the more I think about it I'm coming round to exactly the same thought Gayle

[junetta]

I've just finished watching it and I feel that something doesn't quite ring true about this programme. The eldest daughter looked like she was about to burst into giggles every time she was spoken to and she looked a lot older than twelve.

As for the mother, she didn't seem to be with us for most of it and I found it a little strange that she didn't know she had miscarried. I also noticed that she kept a blind eye on the ash at the end of her ciggie! Daddy managed a can or three whilst the mayhem was going on in the other room.

I just can't believe that those children would be left to sleep where they fell or that the nine year old should be subject to such a miserable life.

It's either a wind up or Social Services ought to be sued for gross neglect.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I wish I had actually seen it now people are mentioning discrepancies. My friend who did see it said that the mother was not totally blind but could see if something was right in front of her face so maybe she could vaguely see the ash - and she'd know where her hand was with the ciggie in. Perhaps the girl was giggling at the prospect of life improving now outsiders could see what it was like? Does anybody know if it will be shown again?

[Ianto.W.]

Nursery Schools are quite good at picking child abuse etc up, unfortunately for legal reasons they don't usally get the credit they deserve. My family in particular would like to thank Livingstone Road Nursery for their vigilance in spotting this in a case we were connected with, this was after the Social Services who advised the courts in this case, and on it's advice made a near disasterous decision on custody.Without wanting to elaborate to much (for obvious reasons) this has now been rectified, thank's again to all concerned you know who you are. Apologies for thread wandering, Ianto.W.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I do wish I'd seen this myself because I'm getting lots of different impressions now about the whole thing.

I will modify my views based on what I've read in this thread.

IF the care of the younger children was solely the responsibility of a 12 year old and a 9 year old I believe that is too much for them to have on their shoulders and they need help. I have a 12 year old daughter and she is perfectly capable of doing most housework and of changing a nappy or two if the need arose, but to have the responsibility of the whole family is more than I would expect of her. Aren't there laws about how old a child has to be before they are allowed to babysit?

IF the younger children/babies are left unchanged and unfed when their older sisters are at school this is neglect.

IF neither parent can see then I would worry about what happens if a toddler gets into danger - how well protected are they from drinking bleach for instance? Or from poking their fingers in an electrical socket? My friend said one of the children fell and his/her lip was bleeding but the mother didn't react to the crying until prompted to do so by the film crew. Even if she could not see does she never wonder why they cry?

IF the parents had indeed said that they plan on having more children to share the work between them and to look after them in their old age then I would say they need to be taught that is not what having children is about and they should be discouraged from having more for those reasons.

IF Social Services has not previously been involved with this family I would question why and feel that they need to be very closely involved from now on to make sure that the whole burden doesn't fall on the children and to educate the parents about things they can and should be doing for themselves.

I would also question whether there is any extended family who could help and if the parents have any sort of social life where they interact with other parents.

[Tinkerbelle]

Excellent post willow, it sums up my thoughts too with not seeing the programme.