All Orwell got wrong was the date ....

pendy · 05-04-2006, 13:16

I have received some very worrying information regarding ID cards. The full article, written by Frances Stonor Saunders, former arts editor of the New Statesman, is too long to reproduce here, but if anyone wants to pm me with an e-mail address, I will be happy to pass it on.

Highlights:

The proposed ID card .... will be connected to a database called the National Identity Register (NIR), where all your personal details will be stored. This will include the unique number which will be issued to yu, your fingerprints, a scan of the back of your eye, and your photograph. Your name address and date of birth will also obvoiusly be stored there. ...... There is unlimited space for every other detail fof your life on the NIR database, which can be expanded by the Government with or without further Acts of Parliament.
..........
Every place that sells alcohol or cigarettes, every post office, every pharmacy and every Bank will have an NIR Card Terminal ...... into which your card can be "swiped" to check your identity. Each time this happens, a record is made at the NIR of the time and place the card was presented.

...............

Private businesses are going to be given access to the NIR Database. .....

It will then be possible for a non-governmental entity to create a detailed dossier of all your activities. Certianly, the Government will have clandestine access to all of them, meaning that they will have a complete record of all your movements, from how much and when you withdraw from your bank account to what medications you are taking, down to the level of what sort of bread you eat ....

Your ID care will, just like your passport, not be your property. The Home Secretary will have the right to revoke or suspend your ID at any time ....

Unquote.

This will NOT stop terrorists - three of the London bombers came from Leeds, and others would in future circumstances have valid ID. All it will do is to increase Government control of every aspect of our lives.

I am very worried.

Apologies for the length of this thread-starter, but the full article makes even more frightening reading.

staggeringman · 05-04-2006, 18:05

its the BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU SERNARIO!not happy with cctv they want to babysit us as well!

Margaret Pilkington · 05-04-2006, 19:07

It worries the proverbial out of me.

WillowTheWhisp · 05-04-2006, 19:28

This is very worrying I agree.

I remember years ago reading one of those "doomsday" type novels which had a government decision that everyone had to be tattoed with a barcode and when you bought goods in shops the barcode was scanned and money deducted from your earnings. When you went to work your barcode was scanned and money credited to you for the hours worked. No-one had actual access to money or even their own bank account. It was all government controlled by this barcoding system.

At the time when I read it it seemed totally far fetched and ludicrous but now it doesn't seem all that far removed from what the governent proposes I can imagine us coming to that and it's scary.

entwisi · 05-04-2006, 19:35

The only sobering fact in all this is that the Goverment haven't a hope in hell of getting the computer system to work. Look at teh fiasco with teh Passport office, the CSA, the DWP, and the latest fiasco, the NHS. I can't comment too much on the latter as the company I work for is heavily involved and I'm not allowed to comment in public about it. All I will say (Which is info in public domain) is that it is in a right mess.

To try an link every shop, doctor, bank etc would involve amounts of data that are unheard of even today. It would be a VERY brave person to try and design a system capable of it.

I do agree that the idea is extremely scary though. Just think, they could withdraw treatment if you drink more than recommended level, smoke a single ciggy or are 3 ounces over teh 25BMI for your height.

Margaret Pilkington · 05-04-2006, 19:49

The other very scary thing is that the Lords were prepared to sit late and chuck this bill out at every turn....but now it seems that some kind of pressure has been exerted on the Lords and they have sanctioned the bill with some amendments......there has to be something funny going on there.
I also read that the government plan to make the ID cards compulsory if you want a passport after 2008...well, perhaps not compulsory but you will have to pay an extra £30 for you passport...the £30 is for the ID card...which you don't actually HAVE to take....but how many people will pay the money and not take the card....this is supposed to bring us in line with some loony law passed by Brussels that our government are not actually obliged to follow.

Madness with a capital M....can someone show me the exit please?

WillowTheWhisp · 05-04-2006, 19:51

But if you pay £30 for a card and don't take it they still have the info on their database don't they?

Margaret Pilkington · 05-04-2006, 19:54

They certainly do Willow!

thomas_045 · 05-04-2006, 19:57

I know it sounds daft, but im quite glad the ID card system is being considered. If its going to help the government services trace terror suspects etc. They can easily follow their movements. But on the other hand its going to be a right pain in the bum if you have to have your ID card swiped when you nip out for a packet of chewing gum...

Gayle · 05-04-2006, 20:03

In theory yes, thomas, but are these people really going to carry a card?

Margaret Pilkington · 05-04-2006, 20:04

It won't do a thing to prevent terrorism......that was just one of the justifications that the government used after 7/7. They have ID cards in Spain, but the people of Madrid were still blown up. Do you think terrorists will get ID cards.....no, of course they won't and they will still continue to get fund through criminal means. Also before long crooks will formulate clones of ID cards and you could easily have your identity stolen. Then, tell me how you would go about proving that YOU are the real YOU and the criminal is the imposter? The government don't have a good track record for computer systems either - and the prototype system only recognised the cards 65% of the time......so supposing you had been abroad and wanted to get back into the country but the machine didn't recognise your data...would you then be a stateless person forced to find a country to take you in....? Very Kafka-esque!

West Ender · 05-04-2006, 20:56

It is a scary scenario but you might be surprised to know how much information about you is already available - if you know where to look.

No, it won't stop terrorists. The successful suicide bomber/ murderer of the innocent is not likely to have any record of "criminal" activity against him/her. How do you predict that an individual, born in this country and of hitherto unblemished reputation, will strap explosives to himself and kill himself and others by knowing the pattern of his retina? Sadly, it's just a lottery.

SPUGGIE J · 05-04-2006, 22:24

Thanks for that W E now I feel really safe.

Might as well go to Goven in the wrong footy top it would be safer.

Greg Pope · 06-04-2006, 08:44

Hi

I think there's a danger of getting carried away here. I've seen the original e-mail that triggered this off and it is wrong in so many respects that I thought it was a spoof.

The main point of the ID card system isn't to combat terrorism, although it may help that at the margins, but to combat identity fraud which is a real and growing problem. We are all carrying around with us far more information about ourselves which is held by private companies than the ID card will hold - just think about credit cards, bank cards or store loyalty cards.

entwisi · 06-04-2006, 08:52

The point is though Greg is that if your CC gets spoofed you can close it and get a different one. same with everything outside goverment control. When you stick all our info and biometric data into a single place you inherently introduce a single point of failure. If your ID card is spoofed you can't just close it and get another.

Then there is the technology itself. CAn you name a single Goverment IT project that has gone in anywhere near on time or to a standard that is acceptable? I work in the industry and I can't think of a single example.

The risk of falure to me far outweighs any possible benefits that have been suggested to date.

These of course are my opinions, yours may vary