Am I Racist?

[garinda]

The real michael performance art piece.

Bravo.

A masterpiece.

[Madhatter]

Seems i upset a few people with that post to the extent that I got negative. oh dear, so there are a few closet racists lurking in this thread after all.
Rindy there are some good and very valid points in this thread, and I never said poppy was right, I said she made a point of asking why race was vought into it and sugested it could be racist. to which all of us have said we don't believe it was, some however are on a witch hunt, proven by the fact that i got negative.
I wish we had more posters like poppy, rigt or wrong, who have the guts to debate in the open in threads instead of the gutless retards or do it in karma comments.
Perhaps then I'd start to contribute more again.

[SPUGGIE J]

I shot one across poppy's bows but it dosnt mean that the argument was right or wrong. After some of what I went through when I moved up here I felt I had to.

[AccyJay]

My problem isn't with somebody expressing an opinion. It's with people like "Poppy", accusing people of being something that they aren't. S/he hasn't even tried to justify the comments. All that s/he said is "that because somebody say's that they're not racist, they must be". That's not really the basis for a sound argument, or for that matter even a debate. As for the witch hunt, well, i defended a friend (Silvermain) form the real world, & also somebody (Willow The Whisp) from the virtual world that is the internet. I don't understand the comments about being gutless, i haven't given out any bad "Karma", nor, do i intend to.

[Madhatter]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Well actually no, Madhatter my complaint against Poppy is about being misquoted and being held up to be a racist and then being accused of backpeddalling when I pointed out the mistake. I can see nowhere at all where I have misquoted or misunderstood Poppy. As I said earlier if Poppy had been gracious enough then to accept that what I'd actually said wasn't what he'd thought I'd said I would have happily accepted that and all would have been forgotten as far as I was concerned but no, like a dog with a bone Poppy just had to blindly insist that I hadn't been misquoted, msrpresented or misunderstood but that I had changed my tune and (I quote) "backpeddalled" when I had done no such thing. THAT was when I became extremly angry rather than merely irritated.


Guts to have ones own opinion I fully support 100% whether I agree with the opinion or not, and in this case I actually do agree with the sentiment that there is no place for racism on this message board or anywhere else on the internet or in real life for that matter. In fact if you care to look back Roy has always been hot on dealing with racist comments here and has banned certain words from use on the board due to their racist implications.

The point is that I for one don't like being slagged off as a racist when I'm not and I'm sure that's exactly how others feel too.

I was willing to accept the original apology had I not been personally insulted subsequently. How woukd you feel if somebody took a post of yours, told the world that you'd said exactly the opposite and then proceeded to condemn you for what you didn't say? Yes I'm still a bit more than miffed and would appreciate a public apology on that one. Maybe then I'll consider granting a bit of karma for having the guts to stand up and admit he was wrong.


I find the last part of your post rather peculiar considering Poppy, according to his profile, is a 48 year old male.

You're missenterpreting each others comments, he/she thinks that your comments are meaning something different to what they are meant, thats a missunderstanding.
You know that you're not racist and thats all that counts.

Most of the negative karma I get is because people have took my post and twisted it to something that it's not. It seems it's the thing to do on purpose a lot of the time in here, some are certainly not genuine missunderstandings but vendeters by retards who only see one point of view and jump to the conclusion that it's not shared as you know.

To me this thread is about what is racist and what isn't, not who said and who twisted because all,or most can see whats happened in that respect, and know that you aren't. This is the best thread thats been on here in ages and for some reason i get chastised for pointing that out. Someone must agree because its's got five stars.
I couldn't really care less about the karma as I hardly come here much now, I used to just to keep my post count up and to try to add a different point of view to threads but I'm bored now so go elsewhwere. Less, tealeaf and AB don't contribute as much now either, all also have their own point of view so no doubt that will please some too.

Bit confused as I thought poppy was fem, so obviously I don't know poppy, but that doesn't change that fact that they do have the guts to give their opinions right or wrong, and the fact that they are against racism is a good quality. Poppy just needs to remember too pc is bad, it in itself is bordering on racism.

[shillelagh]

ok here goes:

About 10 years ago i walked into a pub with a friend when i was on holiday. It was busy especially for a daytime. I walked up to the bar and ordered 2 1/2's of lager. The whole pub went quiet. The barman served me and when he gave me my change he told me he couldnt refuse to serve me but it would be better if we drank up and left. Which we did. When we were leaving i shouted thank you and bye. Just like i do over here. The noise level went back up.

Where were we: Belfast

Turned out we were in a Catholic pub in the centre of Belfast. An english voice in an irish pub. If i'd walked into a protestant pub - i'd have been ok.


Is that being racist? Would i have had a case against the pub for being 'advised to leave'?

By the way accyjay - no i dont think you are

[Madhatter]

Originally Posted by AccyJay

My problem isn't with somebody expressing an opinion. It's with people like "Poppy", accusing people of being something that they aren't. S/he hasn't even tried to justify the comments. All that s/he said is "that because somebody say's that they're not racist, they must be". That's not really the basis for a sound argument, or for that matter even a debate. As for the witch hunt, well, i defended a friend (Silvermain) form the real world, & also somebody (Willow The Whisp) from the virtual world that is the internet. I don't understand the comments about being gutless, i haven't given out any bad "Karma", nor, do i intend to.

I'm not saying poppy is right, I AM saying I think poppy is wrong that the initial comment was racist and the interpretation of the comment by willow, BUT i can see where that view comes from. Quite often racist people do hide by saying they have coloured, asian friends, not all but some do.


I am one of those who has friends of different ethnic origins and I have to actually stop and think about it(that they are from different ethnic origins) because first and foremost they are human beings.

One mixed race family I have to think hard to remember which one of the parents is which [IMG]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG] but to be told it's a racist response for any of us to comment that we have friends of different races when we are accused of being racist is just as hurtful.

interpretation is everything.

Excellent post jen, were they racist, yes I think the customers were, the bar man probably not.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Madhatter

Excellent post jen, were they racist, yes I think the customers were, the bar man probably not.

How can you possibly assume that the barman was or wasn't racist?

he told me he couldnt refuse to serve me but it would be better if we drank up and left

All that can be assumed from this is he was sticking to the law, by serving them, the latter part of the sentence may have been said either as a threat or as friendly advice.

[Madhatter]

He may have been, but it sounds more like friendly advice than telling them to get out. Im sorry but I don't want you in here would be different.
Only jen can tell the true tone of the barman though, it may have been said like an order rather than advice.
Anyway, who's to say jen isn't english catholic, so yes I think you would have had a case, whether his advice was racist or for your protection is irelevant, it was given because his customers were being so, and in doing so forced a situation were you had to leave for your own safety.

I've been in rockers pubs, (before I had the long hair and stubble) and we've gotten some really threatening looks, but we stayed drank and left. Funny how I can walk in to a rockers club in brum where the door men carry machettes and don't get hassle when I've got long hair.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Madhatter

Funny how I can walk in to a rockers club in brum where the door men carry machettes and don't get hassle when I've got long hair.

Why would anyone with an ounce of sanity or good sense even want to go into a club where the 'greeters' guard the door with machettes?

[Madhatter]

lol good point less, I went with 'friends' and didn't know till one of the 'friends' friends that I'd only just met pointed the fact out. If I'd seen them, like he did before we went in I'd have never have gone in.
I question the sanity of this friend as to why he never thought it relevent enough to tell me, I can only assume it was because he didn't know me and thought i'd been before with this mutual friend so I'd already know. The people we both went with I no longer have anything to do with.
If i go brum now I stick to broad street clubs.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Madhatter

I wish we had more posters like poppy, rigt or wrong, who have the guts to debate in the open in threads instead of the gutless retards or do it in karma comments.

Yes by all means lets encourage people who are willing to openly debate. I'm all for that. But Poppy isn't debating. Poppy is accusing us left right and centre of being something we are not and then when we try to explain that we are not he then says that only proves that we are.

Originally Posted by Madhatter

I'm not saying poppy is right, I AM saying I think poppy is wrong that the initial comment was racist and the interpretation of the comment by willow, BUT i can see where that view comes from. Quite often racist people do hide by saying they have coloured, asian friends, not all but some do.

OK so you now admit that Poppy misinterpreted what I said. My problem is that HE will not admit that. He insists that I have backpedalled and that what I originally meant was that I do not think anyone other than white anglo saxons are even human! THAT is why I am angry with Poppy. I have not misinterpreted Poppy at all as far as I am aware. If you can show me anywhere that you feel I have done so I will gladly look at that and if I have made a mistake I will admit it and apologise. Poppy however is quite clear in his insistance that I am racist and that disgusts me.

As for the bit about racist people hiding their racism by claiming to have "coloured" friends then how are those of us with friends of different racial and ethnic origins supposed defend the accusation of racism and illustrate it?

Originally Posted by madhatter

I am one of those who has friends of different ethnic origins and I have to actually stop and think about it(that they are from different ethnic origins) because first and foremost they are human beings.

One mixed race family I have to think hard to remember which one of the parents is which [IMG]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG] but to be told it's a racist response for any of us to comment that we have friends of different races when we are accused of being racist is just as hurtful.

interpretation is everything.

Fair enough - your added bit does perhaps clarify my original post a little better even if it does make the sentence a bit ugly. My point is that everyone but Poppy saw it as meaning that. Poppy misread/misinterpreted it but hasn't got the guts to admit he did. He blindy continues to insist that I said some people are not human and that when I subsequently pointed out his error he then accused me of backpedalling. If he had been willing to accept that he'd misrepresented me I would have said OK and the whoe thng would have been over and done with.

Originally Posted by Madhatter

Anyway, who's to say jen isn't english catholic,

I doubt that would have mattered. It's a common misunderstanding that it's a religious conflict. It isn't. It's political. It just happens that the Unionists tend to be Catholic and the Loyalists tend to be Protestant. If anyone saw David Tenants search for his ancestors last night it gave an excellent insight into what is a difficult sitution for most outsiders to understand.

On the subject of racism three is often a misundertanding that it's only white people who can be racist. I've been the victim of racism too and I find graffitti on a wall near here to be particularly offensive. It states "Pakis Rule, Honkys out!"

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by madhatter

I'm not saying poppy is right, I AM saying I think poppy is wrong that the initial comment was racist and the interpretation of the comment by willow, BUT i can see where that view comes from.

Yes, as you said Madhatter - interpretation is everything and someone reading that staement of yours could see it meaning that I was interpreting the original comment rather thn Poppy interpreting my comment. However I know what you meant and take it how you intended.

[Madhatter]

wouldn't that be as follows if I did...
I'm not saying poppy is right, I AM saying I think poppy is wrong that the initial comment was racist and the interpretation of that comment by willow, BUT i can see where that view comes from.

I could have written it better though which would be a wise thing to do on here.

OK so you now admit that Poppy misinterpreted what I said

dunno why you put that, I said it was all misinterpreted/a misunderstanding form the start. TBH i didn't understand your post, so he wasn't the only one, it's just that I know you better than he does like most on here and therefore knew what you meant, just like you knew what I meant above.
But if you substitute what he thought you meant

I am one of those who has friends of different ethnic origins and I have to actually stop and think about it(that they are human beings) because first and foremost they are human beings.

It no longer makes sense at all.

[Madhatter]

Whats a unionist, I noticed it on the con club door yesterday?