America v Great Britain

[jaysay]

Most people watch crime dramas on TV, which actually show the difference there is in handing out punishments for crime. Forgetting the death penalty, which will never be reintroduced in this country, code we learn anything from across the pond in making the punishment fit the crime. Over in the states you quite often hear sentences such 450 years in jail being handed out or life without the chance of parole. We all know that at times Justice doesn't seem to be done here, can we learn from the Yanks or not

[accyman]

despite adopting americas crimes and crimerates our judicial system does not unfortunatly but thats what happens when europe is in charge of your country.Criminals however are not tied own by european law so they can advance at a much faster rate

[cashman]

Originally Posted by accyman

despite adopting americas crimes and crimerates our judicial system does not unfortunatly but thats what happens when europe is in charge of your country.Criminals however are not tied own by european law so they can advance at a much faster rate

Nowt to do wi europe mate, our lot had gone soft long before the common market.

[Mancie]

No doubt life should mean "life"..but it's not all good.. the American system of plea bargaining were some murderer gets life while an acomplice gets a new identiy and protection is badly flawed.. for instance the bloke that gave evidence against the mafia killer John Gotti admitted to 18 murders.. but got protection and a new life.that is not justice.

[garinda]

I always thought the great debate about America versus Britain, hinged on peggies.

They say we have bad ones.

Well there might be one or two pockets on the east and west coasts where they have a perfect smile, but in my experience the vast populace that live betwixt the two coasts, the ones that holler profanities while you're trying to canoe peacefully down a river, and want to make you squeal like a pig, have terrible dental hygiene, and should be banged up for at least 500 years.

No parole.

[steeljack]

Think one the greatest differences between UK (Europe) and the US is that the US sees prison time more as a punishment whereas in the UK is seen more as a time for reflection and rehabilitation.(Hug a Hoodie)

Another factor and probably a big one is that our Judges are elected at local county level, any Judge who wants to serve at a higher grade knows he/she had better win a couple of elections if he wants to get noticed and move up to State level, and you don't get elected by being soft . Even Judges appointed to the California Supreme Court have to come before the voters every few years for re-confirmation ,I remember a few years back Chief Justice Rose Byrd was kicked off the bench by California voters because she consistantly refused to uphold the Death penalty which is part of our legal code.
Sentencing here in the US is as topsy-turvy as it seems to be in the UK , 51 different legal codes (one for each State plus the Federal system) you can be guilty in one State for something complety legal in another. Probably the dumbest example off the top of my head is that in Texas you are not allowed to own 'penetrative' sex toys (mechanical or otherwise) , punishable by a fine for ownership , jail time for selling them .
The legal drinking age is another , this used to be determined by each State 18 in some 21 in others , 17 for beer in others , then the Feds (Washington DC) under pressure from a group called MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) and the Department of Transportation issued an edict Blackmail) ... no more Federal money for States which refused to raise the drinking age to 21
Rant.. (No matter that many of the young kids serving overseas in the military are under 21, they can get blown up lose a limb but can't expect a party at the local bar when they come home, and if they have a "family house party" and the cops are called because of noise the parents get cited (fined) for providing alcohol to minors) ok rant over

[garinda]

You can get better tattoos in American prisons.

You can get a Mexican Jesus, crucified, with beautiful scenery, across your back, by the end of your first week.

In British jails you'd be fortunate to get a few sparse dots, a sad little facial tear, or if you were really lucky, 'Love' and 'Hate' spelled correctly on your knuckles.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by garinda

You can get better tattoos in American prisons.

You can get a Mexican Jesus, crucified, with beautiful scenery, across your back, by the end of your first week.

In British jails you'd be fortunate to get a few sparse dots, a sad little facial tear, or if you were really lucky, 'Love' and 'Hate' spelled correctly on your knuckles.

i believe they also offer a tattoo removal service where big bubba tries to scrape off tattoos on your back with his chest hair ..

well thats what they tell teh prison guard is happening i hear lol

[garinda]

Originally Posted by accyman

i believe they also offer a tattoo removal service where big bubba tries to scrape off tattoos on your back with his chest hair ..

Oh that happens here too, and that's just in Holloway women's prison.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Oh that happens here too, and that's just in Holloway women's prison.

And how would you know that Garinda

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Mancie

No doubt life should mean "life"..but it's not all good.. the American system of plea bargaining were some murderer gets life while an accomplice gets a new identity and protection is badly flawed.. for instance the bloke that gave evidence against the mafia killer John Gotti admitted to 18 murders.. but got protection and a new life.that is not justice.

I agree Mancie, the American system has flaws, but they certainly dish out realistic jail terms, as you say life means life, and when you hear sentence doled out like 475 years, they do get something right, SJ is right about the US handing out punishment whilst we reabilitate, but it doesn't work with the majority, its time the punishment was made to fit the crime, and if you can't do the time then don't do the crime in the first place. When people commit premeditated murder, if they knew they wouldn't see the light of day again maybe they'd think twice, and a minimum 25 years for manslaughter wouldn't go a miss either. It annoys me when you hear the statement I sentence you to life imprisonment and you must serve a minimum of 12 years, that's not life, that's a slap on the wrists and a sugar lump

[accyman]

another thing seriously wrong with our system is that the police can have a whole load of evidence aganst a criminal but if teh criminal pleads guilty he will get a lighter scentence as a thankyou for not wasting the courts time with a not guilty plea so instead of getting 5 years they get two years and are out in 1.

there was a lad a few years ago who burgled a family members house and he eventualy got caught and was given 12 months in prison but as part of teh deal he confessed to 35 other burgularies so basicaly got a free pass on all his crimes when infact he shouda been given maximum punishment for each crime as he mainly targeted teh elderly

[jaysay]

Another scam for petty crime such as shop lifting is demand a crown court trial by jury, say some one is charged for sealing £1 bar of chocolate, instead of going to magistrates court they can ask for a crown court trial (or they could) the chances are it won't see the light of day before a jury

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

And how would you know that Garinda

Lord Longford smuggled me in, inside a condom he'd swallowed.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

Lord Longford smuggled me in, inside a condom he'd swallowed.

would that be around the time i was bothering wi Mary Whitehouse?