Animals killed for training

[Boeing Guy]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

As you know,If there is one thing about reading papers it's not to believe the properganda they push.

So why do you continue an argument based on a tabloid newspaper report.
You have not shown any other evidence to back up your claims.
Which means you have contradicted yourself.

Anyway, as Dave, myself and others have pointed out, just how do you train a battlefield surgeon to deal with the wounds caused by gunshot? Many of these doctors go on to work in the NHS saving lives everyday.

Have you ever took any Medication?

[Accyexplorer]

Oh I get it now,it's a bit like you assuming I have no life an sit at a desk all day on Accyweb.....thanks for clearing that up

Also on a side note, I thought your liking of the cliques posts was acting like a creep

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Also on a side note, I thought your liking of the cliques posts was acting like a creep

Suppose it was inevitable really that sooner or later the "C" word would crop up. The sure sign of someone whose arguments have been comprehensively debunked and who just can't admit defeat.

[Accyexplorer]

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

So why do you continue an argument based on a tabloid newspaper report.
You have not shown any other evidence to back up your claims.
Which means you have contradicted yourself.

Anyway, as Dave, myself and others have pointed out, just how do you train a battlefield surgeon to deal with the wounds caused by gunshot? Many of these doctors go on to work in the NHS saving lives everyday.

Have you ever took any Medication?

I thought we was having a debate,not a argument.
Of course I've had medication and I'm also aware that the testing was probably done on animals etc etc.my point is I THINK this 'behaviour' with pigs is unnecessary and if that makes me a hypocrite so be it.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Suppose it was inevitable really that sooner or later the "C" word would crop up. The sure sign of someone whose arguments have been comprehensively debunked and who just can't admit defeat.

Well said have a clique point like.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

I thought we was having a debate,not a argument.

Of course I've had medication and I'm also aware that the testing was probably done on animals etc etc.my point is I THINK this 'behaviour' with pigs is unnecessary and if that makes me a hypocrite so be it.

Progress?

Perhaps?

Now if we can just maybe persuade you that killing pigs is preferable to killing squaddies?

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Oh I get it now,it's a bit like you assuming I have no life an sit at a desk all day on Accyweb.....thanks for clearing that up

Well, 18 posts so far today and it's only 17:14.

I'm retired and I haven't that much spare time!

[Less]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Well, 18 posts so far today and it's only 17:14.

I'm retired and I haven't that much spare time!

I have, but then, I know I'm sad, some come on unable to admit it.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Less

I have, but then, I know I'm sad, some come on unable to admit it.

Posts per day- Less 2.99. Accyexplorer 7.71 !

[Less]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Posts per day- Less 2.99. Accyexplorer 7.71 !

Yes, I know, I'll start posting more when I get used to the site and find out if the members are friendly.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

I can assure you I have both family and close friends in the army.

Then surely you'd want them to get the best treatment possible if they become a battlefield casualty & if the Military say this is how they can get the most realistic practical experience, surely you should, if not support it, at least accept it.

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Why is it only military medics are trained in this 'controversial' way,why not teach all our docs if it helps save life's?

Because the incidence of gunshot wounds & blast injuries within the civil medical profession is very limited.

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Can these medics not do their "tests" on say test tube meat or something though it's 2014 not 1950s.
Surely with all our medical technology there are alternatives to live pigs.

You answer your own complaint, meat is just that, meat. The response & actions of a piece of meat is incomparable to a living functioning body. To understand how a body reacts to various traumas & wounds (from combat injuries) a living organism has to be used & as a pig has the misfortune to be anatomically so near to a human this makes the pig the ideal test subject.

A reliance on synthetic training methods are simply not ample for the modern day battlefield & the injuries that are likely to be sustained. And just a little tag line for you to consider, of all the NATO forces that use this training you'll find it's the Countries that have the most "Boots on the ground" & as such the more risk of battlefield casualties, that see this training as imperative to the well being of their Troops.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

I THINK this 'behaviour' with pigs is unnecessary

Me too ...

But there are a couple of things I don't understand. Why are most of those who oppose your views assuming that you value pigs more than humans? I really haven't read anything that you posted which states this. And why, if the practice is illegal in the UK, is your Ministry of Defence sending members of your armed forces overseas to a place where it is legal? Surely, if it were such, as someone whose opinion I respect said, a "necessary evil", the practice would be allowed in Britain. It would save lots of money, and would take place in a country where bacon sandwiches are haute cuisine ... a not unimportant side benefit.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Less

Yes, I know, I'll start posting more when I get used to the site and find out if the members are friendly.

Watch out for the click!

[gpick24]

Originally Posted by Eric

Me too ...

But there are a couple of things I don't understand. Why are most of those who oppose your views assuming that you value pigs more than humans? I really haven't read anything that you posted which states this. And why, if the practice is illegal in the UK, is your Ministry of Defence sending members of your armed forces overseas to a place where it is legal? Surely, if it were such, as someone whose opinion I respect said, a "necessary evil", the practice would be allowed in Britain. It would save lots of money, and would take place in a country where bacon sandwiches are haute cuisine ... a not unimportant side benefit.

According to here - Ministry of Defence defends shooting pigs for medical training at Nato's training facilities in Jaegerspris, Denmark | Metro News - it`s not illegal. "The MoD argued that although the practice would not be illegal in the UK, approval would have to be obtained on a case-by-case basis from the Home Office."
So why go to Denmark? From the link in original post - "by participating in the Danish-led exercises twice a year rather than conducting our own, we minimise the overall number of animals used.”

[Accyexplorer]

Originally Posted by Eric

Me too ...

But there are a couple of things I don't understand. Why are most of those who oppose your views assuming that you value pigs more than humans? I really haven't read anything that you posted which states this.

That's just members jumping to assumptions,bit hypocritical but I let hem get on with it.....


....It's sad but I kind of like letting them land in ignorance


Ps don't say anything that doesn't fit into their bubble.