Apologize for Slavery? - Page 2

Neil · 17-01-2007, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

Would you care to provide some documentation for that outrageous claim?

When I find it I will provide a you tube link to a documentary about it. There are just too many inconsistencies with the planes causing the building to fall. Watch it with an open mind when I find the you tube link for you.

I don't think the Americans went to the moon either.

Before you ask, no I am not a conspiracy theorist or anything.

Billcat · 17-01-2007, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

When I find it I will provide a you tube link to a documentary about it. There are just too many inconsistencies with the planes causing the building to fall. Watch it with an open mind when I find the you tube link for you.

I don't think the Americans went to the moon either.

Before you ask, no I am not a conspiracy theorist or anything.

A you tube "documentary?" That ought to be amusing!

Why would not not believe that we landed astronauts on the moon?

Have you recently seen Elvis, too?

WillowTheWhisp · 17-01-2007, 20:53

I've seen the documentary Neil refers to and it's not some childish amateurish video. It's a very thought provoking in depth analysis with interviews with those involved directly.

However, back to the subject of slavery and apologies. I do feel it is quite inappropriate for people who have not been responsible for enslaving anyone to apologise to people who themselves have not been enslaved for actions which people who may or my not have been their ancestors did to other people at the time and for which no living person today can be held responsible.

A Native American whose name I cannot at present recall was once at a 'rally' of Native American's complaining that they had lost their traditions and their culture and demanding compensation. He asked if they would like to give up the modern conveniences and go back to living in tents and grass huts - to which their reply was along the lines of "of course not" and his response to that was to suggest they stop living in the past and start looking to the future instead.

Once when I was in Ireland I was confronted by a very opinionated person who told me that I had caused grief and poverty and starvation in his country. When I pointed out that the famine occurred long before I was born he then said that it was my ancestors who had done it to his ancestors which according to him amounted to the same thing. I pointed out one gaping hole in his logic - although I was born and brought up in Lancashire I too have Irish ancestry. At that point he shut up.

I've got a friend who was born in the West Indies and whose mother and father can both trace their line back to slaves - but she's also got a Scottish landowner and slave owner in her family tree. Should she be apologiser or apologisee?

Billcat · 17-01-2007, 21:01

Willow, that's why I emphasized that it should be an apology by the government, not by individuals. I also said that I did not see it as being particularly harmful or helpful for most folks.

Asking individuals to apologize for things they have never done is inappropriate. Asking nations to apologize for past actions that they have done is somewhat different.

WillowTheWhisp · 17-01-2007, 21:05

I'm not altogether sure it is - the racial mix which constitutes this nation today for example bears little resemblance to the England of the 19th century whose upper classes were responsible for some of the things which our leaders feel the need for the nation to apologise for. You couldn't even hold the whole nation responsible back then because the lower classes were also suffering at the hands of those same upper classes.

steeljack · 17-01-2007, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

Willow, that's why I emphasized that it should be an apology by the government, not by individuals. I also said that I did not see it as being particularly harmful or helpful for most folks.

Asking individuals to apologize for things they have never done is inappropriate. Asking nations to apologize for past actions that they have done is somewhat different.

Since the CSA no longer exisists that would be difficult

WillowTheWhisp · 17-01-2007, 21:06

You've lost me there Steeljack.

steeljack · 17-01-2007, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

You've lost me there Steeljack.

the CSA (Confederate States of America) how can they apologise since it/they no longer exist , being the losing side in the civil war they were then incorporated back into the USA

WillowTheWhisp · 17-01-2007, 21:14

ah

I was reading it as Child Support Agency!

Less · 17-01-2007, 21:14

It happened before any of us were born, if I or any member of my family continued to be involved in slavery then I would have something to apologise for.

But several hundred years ago we, the British outlawed slavery, (even though it had brought some of us riches).

Slavery was used at the time and people of that time were ignorant and considered it normal practice, if we, as 'enlightened' people still used it as normal practice then we would have something to apologise for, but we don't use slavery.

We of this day and age should not be taken to task for what was done before we were born,

That, couldn't be influenced by any of us.

Life will give us our own reasons to feel guilty.

Margaret Pilkington · 17-01-2007, 21:36

I do not want any government official to apologise, on my behalf, for what happened some 200 years ago. I had no influence, and therefore I bear no resposibility for those happenings. These apologies are just 'weasel words' they do nothing at all to promote any degree of racial harmony, and could even be seen as 'brown nosing'.

Billcat · 17-01-2007, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

Since the CSA no longer exisists that would be difficult

Slavery was hardly exclusive to the 1861-65 period during which the CSA existed, nor was it exclusive to the states that joined the CSA. In fact, when you look at the period 1776 to 1865, the life of the CSA was less than 5% of the period in which the USA had slavery. Little known fact - in most of the original 13 US states, slavery continued to exist well into the 19th century.

Of course, there were several slave states that did not join the CSA - Missouri, Maryland, and Kentucky.

steeljack · 17-01-2007, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

Slavery was hardly exclusive to the 1861-65 period during which the CSA existed, nor was it exclusive to the states that joined the CSA. In fact, when you look at the period 1776 to 1865, the life of the CSA was less than 5% of the period in which the USA had slavery. Little known fact - in most of the original 13 US states, slavery continued to exist well into the 19th century.

Of course, there were several slave states that did not join the CSA - Missouri, Maryland, and Kentucky.

thats the point , the 'Northern States' by abolishing slavery , admitted that it was wrong and I fail to see why any further apology is required .

Billcat · 17-01-2007, 22:03

But if you admit that you have done something wrong, it is customary to apologize. At least, that's what I was raised to do.

I don't see that an apology from the government harms anyone.

shakermaker · 17-01-2007, 22:09

The American people are not being gathered for referendum on a country-wide apology here.
The American government was responsible, therefore should apologize if it is wanted.
That's the way the way I see it...seems pretty harmless and simple to me.