Apologize for Slavery?

[Billcat]

shakermaker, that's about where I come out on this issue.

Not sure what good an apology will do, but don't see what harm it causes, so I'm quite puzzled as to why some folks object so strenuously.

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Billcat

But if you admit that you have done something wrong, it is customary to apologize. At least, that's what I was raised to do.

I don't see that an apology from the government harms anyone.

You I presume haven't owned any slaves who are now free , so what do you have to apologize for ......nothing.
If the Govt. issues an apology its an admission of guilt and therefore opens up a can of worms for reparations, similar to whats happening in present day Germany , young folks (2 generations away from WW2) having to pay taxes support reparations to Isreal

so whats next , we apologize to the Japanese for Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

[shakermaker]

Originally Posted by steeljack

so whats next , we apologize to the Japanese for Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

Heaven forbid!!
The innocent people there are still nuked up to their eyeballs but hey, they shot you first right?

[spinner]

i think there is sometin sinister about the americans inventing this 3rd generation apology concept and for blak american slaves only it seems. its to deflect attention aaway from their more recent more damaging wrongdoings in hiroshima and iraq. if they apologise after so many generations they are perferct nonwrongdoers who are so good they even correct past sins. . im certain of this trickery by the americans so i dont believe in these superficial apologies

[jackyalex]

i dont want anyone to apolgies on my behalf either as i had nout to do with it,and i think that every country has had slavery from its own people the poor lads that thought that they were getting free ale from the sailors or just be snached from the street only to wake up on deck next morning and be told that they have to work for them,i dont think they got any apology

[Billcat]

Originally Posted by steeljack

You I presume haven't owned any slaves who are now free , so what do you have to apologize for ......nothing.
If the Govt. issues an apology its an admission of guilt and therefore opens up a can of worms for reparations...

Personally, I do not have anything to apologize for, but I have clearly stated my position on personal apologies already, so let's not go over that ground again.

As far as the government's apology is concerned, I fail to see how it necessarily opens up a can of worms regarding reparations. The apology and reparation are two separate issues. First of all, the plaintiffs (as well as their children and virtually all of their grandchildren), are long dead, so I'm not convinced that anyone has standing to bring a lawsuit, as no one who was personally enslaved can claim damages. Nor can we give these dead slaves or ex-slaves any sort of justice, save for an apology. Also, those who might have liability, the slaveowners, are also all dead. The statutory period in which to bring a civil action for torts that ceased to occur in 1865 expsired many, many years ago. Also, There is not reason why, given all these factors, the legislature could include provisions in the law for a summary dismissal of any lawsuits seeking reparations.

BTW, reparations were given to the surviving Japanese internees from WWII, but this is a different case. These internees were still alive.

Frankly, I think that those who just plain and simple do not care to apologize are raising the spectre of reparations in order to scare uninformed voters into taking their side. Pretty much the same tactic that was done vis-a-vis the alleged WMDs in Iraq. I have a really strong distaste for those who attempt to scare me into doing anything - in large part because folks who resort to such tactics generally are unable to persuade using logic and real evidence!

Again, I do not see any harm in the governement issuing an apology.

[Billcat]

Originally Posted by steeljack

so whats next , we apologize to the Japanese for Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

If they apologize first for their actions in Manchuria, Singapore, Pearl Harbor, etc., it might be a good idea.

Basically, it's much akin the the fellow who starts the fight admitting he was wrong, and the fellow who clobbered him in return saying, sorry I hurt you. We could do well with a bit more - hell, a lot more - civility and mutual respect in this sorry old world.

Certainly, the actions of the western allies during the post-WWII occupation of Japan and Germany were of a respectful and forgiving nature. Forgive the people, adminster justice as appropriate for war crimes to the leaders.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Billcat

First of all, the plaintiffs (as well as their children and virtually all of their grandchildren), are long dead, so I'm not convinced that anyone has standing to bring a lawsuit, as no one who was personally enslaved can claim damages. Nor can we give these dead slaves or ex-slaves any sort of justice, save for an apology. Also, those who might have liability, the slaveowners, are also all dead. The statutory period in which to bring a civil action for torts that ceased to occur in 1865 expsired many, many years ago. Also, There is not reason why, given all these factors, the legislature could include provisions in the law for a summary dismissal of any lawsuits seeking reparations.

And surely the same logic (that the people concerned are long since dead and gone) applies where apologies are concerned also. If we had any living slave owners then perhaps the onus would be on them to apologise. I don't see why it is down to the government to do so on behalf of the country as a whole. It wasn't the whole country involved at the time, it was certain people - merchants, ship owners, traders. plantation owners etc. etc. - in fact a minority so why involve everyone?

[chav1]

how many times is slavery going to be appoligosed for it seems every few years an appology is demnded

they should get over it and find somat else to moan about

[garinda]

Should we appologise for slavery?

No.

Should we make sure it is stamped out globally, as Billcat pointed out there are still many indebted workers in the world today, who are slaves all but in name, and should we make sure it never happens again on the scale it did?

Yes.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Slave_wo...reed_by_police

[jedimaster]

Originally Posted by Billcat

My what a nice little racist you are, jedimaster!

Of course, given human nature, anyone who believes himself (or herself) pure-blooded is just fooling one person - themselves! While DNA testing can indeed answer some of the questions, how many among us really know what invading army, handsome gypsy, travelling salesman, sexual predator, etc., might have had a romp with one's own great-granny!

quite right, although as we are referring to an american situation i didn't feel the necessity of dragging ones own country into the discussion and as you have just agreed with my point i believe that either you must be a racist too or you owe me an apology for wildly accusing me of being one
i do hope you aren't going to trash yet another serious thread with wild accusations and personal attacks billy-boy!

[Bazf]

Heaven forbid!!
The innocent people there are still nuked up to their eyeballs but hey, they shot you first right?

So is this sarcasm about nukes or just a stupid comment?

If you actually belive your statement you had better start apologising to Arabs for screwing up the Middle East, remember it was the brits that split up Saudi and formed Iraq, the Rhodesians for screwing up their country, South Africa for introducing Aparthaid and Internment, India for most of the problems they have today between Muslim, Hindu and Sikhs. In fact find a country the brits have been in and they haven't screwed it up, murdered millions or generally raped it of all its valuable goods. A little bit of over kill was used in India.........
The Jallianwala Bagh Massacre, also known as the Amritsar Massacre, was named after the Jallianwala Bagh (Garden) in Amritsar, where, April 19th 1919, British soldiers under the command of Brigadier-General Reginald Dyer opened fire on an unarmed gathering of men, women and children. The firing lasted about 10 minutes and 3600 rounds were fired from guns and the new, recently arrived Tanks. Official sources place the casualties at 1379. According to private sources, the number was over 5,000, with more than 2000 wounded and Civil Surgeon Dr Smith indicated that they were over 1800 buried in pits. Oh yeah they didn't fire first.

[chav1]

why shoudl there be an appology all the slaves are dead and gone and my generation certainly didnt enslave them

it would be like me approaching the german govenment and demanding an appology for them shooting at my grandad or great grandad even

sod em the whining sods , slavery had nothing to do with them they just want a good old whinge and cry and seen as the race card is wearing thin i guess crying about long dead people been enslaved is all they have left to moan about

there has already been an appology for slavey so why do they need another ?

[Billcat]

Originally Posted by jedimaster

quite right, although as we are referring to an american situation i didn't feel the necessity of dragging ones own country into the discussion and as you have just agreed with my point i believe that either you must be a racist too or you owe me an apology for wildly accusing me of being one
i do hope you aren't going to trash yet another serious thread with wild accusations and personal attacks billy-boy!

Agree with you? Obviously, you have taken leave what little senses you ever had, jedidisaster!

[Billcat]

Originally Posted by chav1

why shoudl there be an appology all the slaves are dead and gone and my generation certainly didnt enslave them

Simply because it does nobody any harm, and because slavery was wrong. Even the framers of the Declaration of Independence understood that slavery was a major problem, but decided to perpetuate the situation. There are many, many African-Americans alive today whose lives were gravely affected by the Jim Crow laws and other forms of American apartheid. These laws were put in place because America reneged on the concept that these people were equal in the eyes of the law. It took about a century after the Civil War to get serious about eliminating the ongoing effects of slavery.

When you distill the arguments against makng the apology, it effectivlely comes down to "I don't wish to apologize." Nobody has shown that there is any other reason not to do it.