Apology

[Mancie]

To be honest even without an inquiry, I think most people have known for years that most of those shot on that day were people who had got caught up in a situation that got out of anyones control.. mistakes made and ended in deaths... but the wrong people ended up dead.
I think the apology is in order if only to aknowledge that those shot were not IRA members.. the real culprits got away.. a tragic mistake.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Why should the government apologise for something it had nothing to do with? By contrast, the previous Labour government had everything to do with the totally unjustified invasion of Iraq which led to the deaths of British servicemen. What a pity your red blinkers blind you to the injustice of that.

There ain't no blinkers here..the report on Bloody Sunday has been ongoing for years.. should this Government apologise for sinking of the Belgrano?..to my mind no as it was in an act of war.. mind you that was a Tory Government.. not the Lib-Dem we have now.

[Barrie Yates]

It seems to be a British trait - glorify the ex-terrorists - Makarios, Kenyatta. Mugabe, McGiunness & Adams. If any of the troops should be arraigned then so should the latter two, and prhaps also Blair & Brown for taking the country into, and continuing with two illegal wars.
As the IRA fought against the law of the land - and therefore the Queen, is that not treason?
Don't think it was too long ago that the death penalty was abolished for treason and piracy.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Mancie

should this Government apologise for sinking of the Belgrano?..to my mind no as it was in an act of war.

Surely you're not trying to compare the Falklands and Iraq, are you? In the former, we went to war to defend British territory and more importantly, British subjects from occupation by a fascist military junta. In the latter, Iraq posed no threat to us at all (despite being ruled by a bloodthirsty dicatator) and we went to war in order to pursue our foreign policy of meekly trotting behind the yanks. Hardly comparable.

[yerself]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

It seems to be a British trait - glorify the ex-terrorists - Makarios, Kenyatta. Mugabe, McGiunness & Adams.

You forgot Mandela.

[DaveinGermany]

So after all the bleating & the contrition by the Government only a couple of days ago now this !!

Hundreds evacuated after security alert in Northern Ireland - Crime, UK - The Independent

Like most people have been saying, we shouldn't have apologised.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by yerself

You forgot Mandela.

Yes i did and I offer my apologies for the ommission as he was ultimately responsible for a great number of horrendous murders - his own tribe, Zulu, and whites. Which leads me to ask a question - are any of these countries better off (the general population), than they were under Colonial Rule?

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Surely you're not trying to compare the Falklands and Iraq, are you? In the former, we went to war to defend British territory and more importantly, British subjects from occupation by a fascist military junta. In the latter, Iraq posed no threat to us at all (despite being ruled by a bloodthirsty dicatator) and we went to war in order to pursue our foreign policy of meekly trotting behind the yanks. Hardly comparable.

Well yes, but only as far both were wars.. like it or not it makes little difference, you can pick and choose which war you like or dislike but troops and civilians are going to be killed.. to carp on about Blair or Bush or any leader to apologise for a war is not going to happen.. that does not mean we cannot say sorry for killing innocent people.. but then that's just my opinion.

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Yes i did and I offer my apologies for the ommission as he was ultimately responsible for a great number of horrendous murders - his own tribe, Zulu, and whites. Which leads me to ask a question - are any of these countries better off (the general population), than they were under Colonial Rule?

I suppose the answer to your question is ...... who's fault is it that "British Africa" is in the state its in .......in my opinion its the fault of succesive British Govts. beginning with the infamous "Winds of Change " speech made by Prime Minister Harold Macmillon , which signaled the abandoment of our 'responsibilities' . We just pulled out leaving the native populations to manage for themselves in a world of which they had no knowledge ..... and then we acted all surprised when folks like Idi Amin, Mugabe,Kenyatta or Mandela popped up . Don't get me wrong the British weren't the only ones who made a collosal mistakes , anyone remember Emporer Bokassa of the "Central African Empire" or Mobutu in Zaire and his brother-in-law Holden Roberto in Angola

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Mancie

Well yes, but only as far both were wars.. like it or not it makes little difference, you can pick and choose which war you like or dislike but troops and civilians are going to be killed.. to carp on about Blair or Bush or any leader to apologise for a war is not going to happen.. that does not mean we cannot say sorry for killing innocent people.. but then that's just my opinion.

Oi, Mancie, what's all this reasonableness about?..."but then that's just my opinion"?!!?...I was expecting a full-on "imperialist, running dog, capitalist scum" type rant! Are you coming down with something?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Oi, Mancie, what's all this reasonableness about?..."but then that's just my opinion"?!!?...I was expecting a full-on "imperialist, running dog, capitalist scum" type rant! Are you coming down with something?

Could be the DTs Wyn

[DaveinGermany]

No Wyn it's like I said in another thread (Dipsticks) this is "New Mancie" & I really do believe he should be encouraged.

As to who's to blame SJ, I wouldn't consider the governments at fault, all these parts of the Empire were adamant enough that the British Imperialism & Colonialism had run its course, they wanted their Independence & self rule which they duly got by peaceful or non peaceful means.

They then appointed their own leaders & governance, so the blame lays squarely on their own shoulders as the old adage goes, "Be careful what you wish for-you just might get it !". well they got it right enough, then they have the temerity to turn around & demand that Britain apologise or give some sort of recompense & this 40-50 years after the fact !! No the problems can all be laid at their own door not ours.


Incidentally it doesn't just apply to the British although my main point was about our part in all this, France, Belgium, Holland & Germany all spring to mind when you think about European Colonialism. Even the good old US of A aren't entirely blameless, they've also dipped their toes into the pond of colonisation ! But then with only being a young nation you don't have our long & colourful history.

[DaveinGermany]

And so it begins, I think the government will very soon regret their insistence on this apology kick.

Were Bloody Sunday soldiers involved in 'Ballymurphy massacre'? | UK news | The Observer

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

...all these parts of the Empire were adamant enough that the British Imperialism & Colonialism had run its course, they wanted their Independence & self rule which they duly got by peaceful or non peaceful means.

I'm sure the Romans though independence would leave us a little adrift too, when we were no longer part of their empire.

Though the Dark Ages weren't all that bad.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

I'm sure the Romans though independence would leave us a little adrift too, when we were no longer part of their empire.

Though the Dark Ages weren't all that bad.

Didn't realise you were that old G