Are I.D. cards a good thing? - Page 4

garinda · 22-11-2008, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

Cashman, the forum in question is PPRuNe Forums - Professional Pilots Rumour Network

Pilots and all airport workers in the UK who have access to restricted areas are amongst the first to be getting the new ID cards, we already have a Restricted Area Card, also known as a Airside Pass, which allows you access to certain areas of the airport, ie a pilot will be allowed to access the Apron (where we park the planes), airside departure and arrival lounge, but not the baggage handling areas (where the mystical baggage handlers live and break your cases), or certain maintenance areas.
All staff who have one of these, as I do, has to undergo various security background checks, much more rigorous and time consuming than the new ID card checks.

The holder of a Airside Pass, still has to undergo Security Screening just as any other passenger and is also subject to the same rules.
BALPA (The British Airline Pilots Association) are against the ID card scheme as are the majority of Pilots and Air Crew.

Now I am off to play with my Crayons and Boeing 737-400, to Paris Orly and back

Fingers crossed you don't get lost on the way back, in finding Euston station.

Meccy · 23-11-2008, 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Di-dums.

What's happened to your sense of humour?

I thought your ideals of free speech meant that any target was fair game, if it produced even the wryest of titters?

Or does it not apply if the butt of the joke is you or your little friend?

I'm all for humour Garinda, I just thought that a person with your acumen would have used a more structured argument.

As to ID cards in the war, it was a necessary evil in a time of national peril. The were not needed afterwards and were abandoned. As to their efficacy, much the same as now - very easily forged and therefore useless. The only parties to gain in this are the agents of the state, collecting more and more data about us all. That's OK with a benign government but who can guarantee what kind of party will be in power in 10 , 20 or 50 years. It could so easily happen.

The argument that if you have nothing to hide that you have nothing to fear doesn't wash either. Again, with a benign government, no problem. Just think what life would be like if your every move could be tracked, the state looking over your shoulder all the time. That will come even closer with road pricing. It would, of course, be "For our own good"; but I don't want to live in a society like that, would you?

We need to protect our hard-won freedoms.

andrewb · 23-11-2008, 10:48

I think Garinda should publish all the details the state would hold if he has no fear of it all being lost in one data leak.

garinda · 23-11-2008, 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meccy

I'm all for humour Garinda, I just thought that a person with your acumen would have used a more structured argument.

As to ID cards in the war, it was a necessary evil in a time of national peril. The were not needed afterwards and were abandoned. As to their efficacy, much the same as now - very easily forged and therefore useless. The only parties to gain in this are the agents of the state, collecting more and more data about us all. That's OK with a benign government but who can guarantee what kind of party will be in power in 10 , 20 or 50 years. It could so easily happen.

The argument that if you have nothing to hide that you have nothing to fear doesn't wash either. Again, with a benign government, no problem. Just think what life would be like if your every move could be tracked, the state looking over your shoulder all the time. That will come even closer with road pricing. It would, of course, be "For our own good"; but I don't want to live in a society like that, would you?

We need to protect our hard-won freedoms.

If you carry a mobile phone it is already possible to track your movements. Indeed some very naughty people have already been convicted using such evidence.

What a liberty!

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but hasn't holy war been declared against western democracy?

If the introduction of idenity cards stops one more innocent person dieing as a result of a terrorist's bomb, then it will have been worth my loss of liberty by having to have an identity card.

What a liberty!

garinda · 23-11-2008, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

I think Garinda should publish all the details the state would hold if he has no fear of it all being lost in one data leak.

Why don't you?

I've absolutley nothing to hide.

I've never even been a member of any political organisation, unlike some.

jaysay · 23-11-2008, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Why don't you?

I've absolutley nothing to hide.

I've never even been a member of any political organisation, unlike some.

I dont have a proble of I.D.cards in principle as we all carry some for of I.D all the time, its more a marrer of the governmnt losing all my data that scares the crap out of me.

andrewb · 23-11-2008, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Why don't you?

I've absolutley nothing to hide.

I've never even been a member of any political organisation, unlike some.

Go ahead then? I won't be doing. I'm not in favour of £20billion schemes which will make not an ounce of difference other than making it easier for the government to lose my data. I'd rather they go on the police, the NHS, I'd rather they save lives than be some fictitious defeater of terrorism.

garinda · 23-11-2008, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

I dont have a proble of I.D.cards in principle as we all carry some for of I.D all the time, its more a marrer of the governmnt losing all my data that scares the crap out of me.

That's a problem we have already, with the data that's already held on us.

Do you suggest we throw away our birth certificates, National Insurance numbers, driving licences, passports etc., because the information held on those forms of identity may be lost?

garinda · 23-11-2008, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Go ahead then? I won't be doing. I'm not in favour of £20billion schemes which will make not an ounce of difference other than making it easier for the government to lose my data. I'd rather they go on the police, the NHS, I'd rather they save lives than be some fictitious defeater of terrorism.

Nice. I'm sure that attitude will bring great comfort to the families that have lost a loved one killed by a terrorist's bomb.

Pray how much is the war in Iraq/Afghanistan costing each day, the war your beloved Conservatives agreed we should fight in?

cashman · 23-11-2008, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Pray how much is the war in Iraq/Afghanistan costing each day, the war your beloved Conservatives agreed we should fight in?

they must have changed their minds now, but "Not" fer political reasons.

andrewb · 23-11-2008, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Nice. I'm sure that attitude will bring great comfort to the families that have lost a loved one killed by a terrorist's bomb.

Terrorists who would all have held ID cards. We should be spending money on the police, to prevent terrorism, so we have no more blood shed on our streets.

cashman · 23-11-2008, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Terrorists who would all have held ID cards. We should be spending money on the police, to prevent terrorism, so we have no more blood shed on our streets. No use being able to identify a terrorist only after they have committed the act.

so your saying osama n all his followers were british citizens?

garinda · 23-11-2008, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Terrorists who would all have held ID cards. We should be spending money on the police, to prevent terrorism, so we have no more blood shed on our streets.

Er...wrong again.

At present I don't think you have to carry an identity card if you are from Leeds.

andrewb · 23-11-2008, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Er...wrong again.

At present I don't think you have to carry an identity card if you are from Leeds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Terrorists who would all have held ID cards.

If this wasteful scheme were implemented the terrorists would have had identity cards. So how would ID cards have prevented these tragic deaths?

garinda · 23-11-2008, 11:59

Blimey, it makes you long for the 'on your bike', and the 'hang 'em, and flog 'em' old school Conservatives, rather than today's bleeding heart Tories, who seem more concerned with the civil rights of suspected terrorists, and the paranoid worries about our civil liberties being erroded.