Are I.D. cards a good thing?

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

Blimey, it makes you long for the 'on your bike', and the 'hang 'em, and flog 'em' old school Conservatives, rather than today's bleeding heart Tories, who seem more concerned with the civil rights of suspected terrorists, and the paranoid worries about our civil liberties being erroded.

I think I missed it, try it again, how would £20 Billion ID cards have prevented the deaths?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Blimey, it makes you long for the 'on your bike', and the 'hang 'em, and flog 'em' old school Conservatives, rather than today's bleeding heart Tories, who seem more concerned with the civil rights of suspected terrorists, and the paranoid worries about our civil liberties being erroded.

How is an I.D. card going to help pinpoint a terrorist who is born and bred in Leeds, when in most cases even their own parents don't know their dark secrets. I certainly think that every person coming to live in this country should have an I.D. card, but like you say we have driving licences passports (but I don't any more) bank books, as for bleeding heart, I'll leave that to the fascist left Guardian reads like Pole Dance Polly

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

How is an I.D. card going to help pinpoint a terrorist who is born and bred in Leeds, when in most cases even their own parents don't know their dark secrets. I certainly think that every person coming to live in this country should have an I.D. card, but like you say we have driving licences passports (but I don't any more) bank books, as for bleeding heart, I'll leave that to the fascist left Guardian reads like Pole Dance Polly

As I said on the very first page of this thread, I'm not opposed to identity cards in principle, because of the paranoid belief that their introduction would lead to an attack on my civil liberties.

No one I've spoken to that carried them in Word War II, thought their civil liberties were erroded by having them. But hey, perhaps they would say that...as we won that war.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

As I said on the very first page of this thread, I'm not opposed to identity cards in principle, because of the paranoid belief that their introduction would lead to an attack on my civil liberties.

No one I've spoken to that carried them in Word War II, thought their civil liberties were erroded by having them. But hey, perhaps they would say that...as we won that war.

......as we won the war, not as you'd notice, Blair and Brown did in one stroke what Hitler couldn't managed in six years of war, they sold us down the river, in Blairs case for his own ends

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

......as we won the war, not as you'd notice, Blair and Brown did in one stroke what Hitler couldn't managed in six years of war, they sold us down the river, in Blairs case for his own ends

That's rather insulting to those who gave their lives in the fight against fascism.

We continue to live in a deocracy where we are still free to vote for those we want to lead us, just as we are still free to vote out those we don't.

[andrewb]

Garinda, you've made clear you're not against them under the basis of 'civil liberties'. So are you for or against ID cards?

I've still yet to hear how this ID card scheme would prevent terrorism, if that is indeed what you believe.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Garinda, you've made clear you're not against them under the basis of 'civil liberties'. So are you for or against ID cards?

I've still yet to hear how this ID card scheme would prevent terrorism, if that is indeed what you believe.

As I've so patiently said I'm neither for or against the introduction of idenity cards, but I'm certainly not swayed by the argument that their introduction would be an assault on our civil liberties.

According to the Home Office the intoduction would make it harder for terrorists to conceal their real identities, and would therefore hasten any convictions. Surely a good thing.

Plus it would make it harder for any would be terrorists to make unlawful claims for benefits, which would fund their living costs whilst they are planning their attacks against us. Again that sounds like a good thing to me.

Terrorism and Organised Crime - Identity and Passport Service

[garinda]

As for the economic viability of the introduction of identity cards, before I could make an informed decision I would need to know how many millions of pound were being paid to fraudulent claimants of social security benefits, and how soon the cost of the card's introduction would have paid for itself, by the money saved from not paying those illegal claimants.

[kestrelx]

Yes Boeing Guy last time they used to tattoo a number on you was in the Nazi concentration camps and they were Jews. That may indicate where all this I.D. card scheme is going!?

[Gordie]

Originally Posted by Benipete

I think it is aimed more at people that have several identities,that claim in different Towns and Cities for large families.
There are a great number of them.

I could not agree more

[cashman]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

Yes Boeing Guy last time they used to tattoo a number on you was in the Nazi concentration camps and they were Jews. That may indicate where all this I.D. card scheme is going!?

if you honestly think that, i suggest ya see a doctor. its n illness.

[Gordie]

Originally Posted by jaysay

......as we won the war, not as you'd notice, Blair and Brown did in one stroke what Hitler couldn't managed in six years of war, they sold us down the river, in Blairs case for his own ends

What river is that ? are you on drugs.

[Gordie]

Originally Posted by garinda

As for the economic viability of the introduction of identity cards, before I could make an informed decision I would need to know how many millions of pound were being paid to fraudulent claimants of social security benefits, and how soon the cost of the card's introduction would have paid for itself, by the money saved from not paying those illegal claimants.

So you are a bit more clued up to the real world than I thought
I couldnt agree more

[kestrelx]

I have gone through all these posts and would like to answer a few comments.

Less says this is Old news, it isn't old this is the future mate and could effect you and your kids life. You could be tracked by an annonymous government agent who has access to your medical files, history, school records everything from birth to death!

Garinda don't you value freedom? What happened to being known in your local shop or post office without needing I.D.? THe I.D. card scheme will be like nothing else as it will all be on a massive data base. So this is nothing like any other form of I.D. that we need at the moment. Even with the N.I. number at the moment they can't track your movements.

Exactly Meccy, once these systems are in place all it takes is one dictator to come in and there will be total control of everyone and everything they do with the massive leaps in power of computers and the nano-technology Micro-computers that can't even be seen with the eye?) that is coming in now. What you have seen in science fiction will eventually be real. THis is why I say no to I.D. cards and Datebases as it's the first rung on the ladder to totalitarian control.

Like what happened in 1930's Germany. Society as we know it could collapse over night.

This country supposedly fought against Nazi Germany to protect our freedom but now the government are planning to take away our freedom on a massive scale - I.D. Cards are just the start!

Yes they had I.D. cards in the second world war but they didn't have a massive computer to keep records and track people to back it up.

I agree with Jay Say that Blair sold us down the river. Blair lied about Weapons of Mass destruction and started a war that has stirred up more hatred and created more terrorism against Britain. Al Queada was originally formed by USA Government C.I.A. to undermine the Soviet war against Afganistan that took place in the 80's. BIn Laden and his people were trained and funded by the C.I.A. Now they say they must take away our freedoms to protect us from Terrorism - it's all a load of hypocrisy!

If you were in Iraq and had done nothing wrong and suddenly your house was bombed by USA or Britain and you came home and your kids were blown to bits how would you feel? What would you do? You'd probably want to get revenge and that would mean becoming a terrorist?


Some one said David Icke can't be trusted, but a lot of what he says about politics is right!

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

As for the economic viability of the introduction of identity cards, before I could make an informed decision I would need to know how many millions of pound were being paid to fraudulent claimants of social security benefits, and how soon the cost of the card's introduction would have paid for itself, by the money saved from not paying those illegal claimants.

Benefit fraud (and error) costs us £2.6 billion according to recent statistics. The government figures show 95% of benefit fraud is by fraudulent circumstances, not identity. This means we would make a maximum saving of £130 million. That would cover the £20 billion cost in around 150 years time.