Are I.D. cards a good thing? - Page 7

Mancie · 24-11-2008, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Benefit fraud (and error) costs us £2.6 billion according to recent statistics. The government figures show 95% of benefit fraud is by fraudulent circumstances, not identity. This means we would make a maximum saving of £130 million. That would cover the £20 billion cost in around 150 years time.

It's all to much for me...a Tory complaining about fraud?..look at your own back benches ..son!

cashman · 24-11-2008, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

It's all to much for me...a Tory complaining about fraud?..look at your own back benches ..son!

Mancie,Mancie, ya should know by now! that don't count wi them people.

Gordie · 24-11-2008, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrelx

I have gone through all these posts and would like to answer a few comments.

Less says this is Old news, it isn't old this is the future mate and could effect you and your kids life. You could be tracked by an annonymous government agent who has access to your medical files, history, school records everything from birth to death!

Garinda don't you value freedom? What happened to being known in your local shop or post office without needing I.D.? THe I.D. card scheme will be like nothing else as it will all be on a massive data base. So this is nothing like any other form of I.D. that we need at the moment. Even with the N.I. number at the moment they can't track your movements.

Exactly Meccy, once these systems are in place all it takes is one dictator to come in and there will be total control of everyone and everything they do with the massive leaps in power of computers and the nano-technology Micro-computers that can't even be seen with the eye?) that is coming in now. What you have seen in science fiction will eventually be real. THis is why I say no to I.D. cards and Datebases as it's the first rung on the ladder to totalitarian control.

Like what happened in 1930's Germany. Society as we know it could collapse over night.

This country supposedly fought against Nazi Germany to protect our freedom but now the government are planning to take away our freedom on a massive scale - I.D. Cards are just the start!

Yes they had I.D. cards in the second world war but they didn't have a massive computer to keep records and track people to back it up.

I agree with Jay Say that Blair sold us down the river. Blair lied about Weapons of Mass destruction and started a war that has stirred up more hatred and created more terrorism against Britain. Al Queada was originally formed by USA Government C.I.A. to undermine the Soviet war against Afganistan that took place in the 80's. BIn Laden and his people were trained and funded by the C.I.A. Now they say they must take away our freedoms to protect us from Terrorism - it's all a load of hypocrisy!

If you were in Iraq and had done nothing wrong and suddenly your house was bombed by USA or Britain and you came home and your kids were blown to bits how would you feel? What would you do? You'd probably want to get revenge and that would mean becoming a terrorist?

Some one said David Icke can't be trusted, but a lot of what he says about politics is right!

your quote the other way round
If you were in Britain and had done nothing wrong and suddenly your street or train station was bombed by muslim fanatics and you came home and your kids were blown to bits how would you feel ? What would you do.My quote Any decent person would not become a terrorist and do harm in revenge to totally innocent members of the public.You come across as a bit of a fanatic yourself or have you been visiting one of those
mosque`s
Britains intentions in Iraq have always been to help the people of that country

andrewb · 24-11-2008, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Typical Tory. Lumping statistics together.

If it is costing us £2.6 billion for benefit fraud and benefit error would that be $1 fraud and £2.6 minus £1 for error?

But that is what politicians do when they want to spin a statistic into something different.

Until fraud and error are separated your statistic is meaningless.

Its completely relevant for what I'm arguing. My figures assume there is no error, and all £2.6 billion is for fraud. If more of it is spent on error, it simply increases the number of years ID cards will take to pay back, hence reducing the cost effectiveness even further.

Gordie · 25-11-2008, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrelx

Hey Garinda, Nietzsche broke down in the street crying and spent the rest of his life in a mental hospital - so is that what happens if you laugh for no reason ha ha ha!

I.D. cards arn't the problem in themselves it's what they will be used for, to control all your activities and it will all be on one big data base. It will be of no benefit to us!

You say you have nothing to worry about if you've kept you nose clean! That's a joke. WHat happens when they bring in the next thing that take away more rights until you have no rights left but are just a moron sitting on a chair in front of a computer screen. But perhaps you might already be that?

What happens if next they say we are going to take all your children away under 6? What would you do then?

Hey Garinda, Nietzsche broke down in the street crying and spent the rest of his life in a mental hospital - so is that what happens if you laugh for no reason ha ha ha!

I.D. cards arn't the problem in themselves it's what they will be used for, to control all your activities and it will all be on one big data base. It will be of no benefit to us!

You say you have nothing to worry about if you've kept you nose clean! That's a joke. WHat happens when they bring in the next thing that take away more rights until you have no rights left but are just a moron sitting on a chair in front of a computer screen. But perhaps you might already be that?

Thats a bit much suggesting a person could be a moron sitting on a chair in front of a computer because they dont quite share your views on this.
I think the Goverment should have information on all citizens including
D N A That is nonsense to suggest they will be used to control all your activities and also nonsense that it could be used to take all your rights away and also nonsense to suggest that it wont be of benefit to us.
If a person has nothing to hide it can only be of benefit.
It will help keeping details on known and suspected criminals.child abusers
terrorists.drug dealers.tax evaders. benefit cheats. bigamists. The list is endless. if you are a good honest citizen I D cards will be of benefit.

cashman · 25-11-2008, 00:53

i actually agree with gordie,

the only thing concerns me, is the cretins that lose data on a regular basis.

BERNADETTE · 25-11-2008, 01:37

I will be the second to agree with Gordie, just find a goverment agency to keep the records safe. Or maybe by losing them they can keep immigration figures lower, sorry to be cynical!!!

jaysay · 25-11-2008, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

It's all to much for me...a Tory complaining about fraud?..look at your own back benches ..son!

And you think your grubby mod are any different, the only difference is those on the Labour benches sold away their principles just to get their snouts in the trough Prescott being a fine example, he ain't done bad for an out of work cabin steward, anyone for croquet

jaysay · 25-11-2008, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

I will be the second to agree with Gordie, just find a goverment agency to keep the records safe. Or maybe by losing them they can keep immigration figures lower, sorry to be cynical!!!

No your not cynical Bernie just telling it as it is

Meccy · 25-11-2008, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie

Thats a bit much suggesting a person could be a moron sitting on a chair in front of a computer because they dont quite share your views on this.
I think the Goverment should have information on all citizens including
D N A That is nonsense to suggest they will be used to control all your activities and also nonsense that it could be used to take all your rights away and also nonsense to suggest that it wont be of benefit to us.
If a person has nothing to hide it can only be of benefit.
It will help keeping details on known and suspected criminals.child abusers
terrorists.drug dealers.tax evaders. benefit cheats. bigamists. The list is endless. if you are a good honest citizen I D cards will be of benefit.

The first people to get false ID - and they will!! Will be criminals - terrorists - drug dealers. The expensive ID card program will not make us safer; it will give an increasingly autocratic government details of our every move and therefore more power over us - which they don't need.

mattylad · 25-11-2008, 12:43

As far as I know the first people to get them will be the immigrants.
They will all get them for free with their "welcome to the UK, here is your benefit" pack

Boeing Guy · 25-11-2008, 13:10

The Home Office Consultation Document is here:
http://www.ips.gov.uk/identity/downl...egislation.pdf
It explains all about the cards.
The first wave of cards to be issued are to be Airside Workers at some airports.

Quote:

It is intended that initially identity cards will
be issued to airside workers at a small number of
airports (the Wave One airports) to facilitate
improvements to the pre-employment identity
checking process and so provide additional
reassurance and security as to the identity of
people having access to the restricted airside area.

mothernature · 25-11-2008, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie

Thats a bit much suggesting a person could be a moron sitting on a chair in front of a computer because they dont quite share your views on this.
I think the Goverment should have information on all citizens including
D N A That is nonsense to suggest they will be used to control all your activities and also nonsense that it could be used to take all your rights away and also nonsense to suggest that it wont be of benefit to us.
If a person has nothing to hide it can only be of benefit.
It will help keeping details on known and suspected criminals.child abusers
terrorists.drug dealers.tax evaders. benefit cheats. bigamists. The list is endless. if you are a good honest citizen I D cards will be of benefit.

There's a little problem with ID cards containing DNA information kept by our government. You have no idea what their real intentions are or wether they will sell/pass on those details to anyone and everyone. I for one do not want just anyone having my DNA information to manipulate or clone as they see fit. It only takes one unsavoury character to get that information and next thing you know the police are at the door because they have found your DNA at a crime scene. There is also the issue that DNA can be used to track people who have health problems. To my mind that is giving the government an open door policy to dictate in the future wether such people should be allowed to carry on producing offspring and don't think it can't happen either.