Are I.D. cards a good thing? - Page 8

kestrelx · 25-11-2008, 17:19

It's in the Daily Mirror today 25th 11 05 page 9 Apparently Prime Minister Tony Blair was bugged by USA security forces and files kept on him. The USA want to put in legislation in that states visitors won't be able to enter the country unless the Security people have access to their e-mails to check if they have been in contact with anyone undesirable. So all these things are being put into place - regardless of what people like you and me think.

Garinda, what difference would it have made if my brother'd had an I.D. card? None, unless of course it was at the stage where people are tracked on a daily basis!

As far as Iraq is concerned British Government armed and backed Saddam Husein into power as the USA backed Al Queda in Afghanistan back in the 80's! Know your history not just what it says on the news!

cashman · 25-11-2008, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrelx

As far as Iraq is concerned British Government armed and backed Saddam Husein into power as the USA backed Al Queda in Afghanistan back in the 80's! Know your history not just what it says on the news!

funny thought the USA backed the taliban?

jaysay · 26-11-2008, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrelx

It's in the Daily Mirror today 25th 11 05 page 9 Apparently Prime Minister Tony Blair was bugged by USA security forces and files kept on him. The USA want to put in legislation in that states visitors won't be able to enter the country unless the Security people have access to their e-mails to check if they have been in contact with anyone undesirable. So all these things are being put into place - regardless of what people like you and me think.

Garinda, what difference would it have made if my brother'd had an I.D. card? None, unless of course it was at the stage where people are tracked on a daily basis!

As far as Iraq is concerned British Government armed and backed Saddam Husein into power as the USA backed Al Queda in Afghanistan back in the 80's! Know your history not just what it says on the news!

So its not only us that thought Blair was a dodgy character

jambutty · 26-11-2008, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Its completely relevant for what I'm arguing. My figures assume there is no error, and all £2.6 billion is for fraud. If more of it is spent on error, it simply increases the number of years ID cards will take to pay back, hence reducing the cost effectiveness even further.

The last thing that your figures assume is that there is no error.

Let me see if I have this spot on. Your post #75 states: “Benefit fraud (and error) costs us £2.6 billion according to recent statistics.”

It’s the word “and” even inside brackets that gives it away. It lumps fraud and error together.

If you are going to argue your case then at least have the common sense to argue facts as they are and not try to spin your way out.

But then that is what politicians, even budding ones, do.

andrewb · 26-11-2008, 14:45

Are you disagreeing that it will take at least 150 years to pay back or not? The only difference error would make would be to extend the 150 years, and further reinforce my point.

Are you working this out, or just taking the view on a principled stand that I lumped them together therefore I cannot have an exact figure? If it's the latter then you haven't taken the effort to realise I have used the most conservative figures, and yet it still backs up what I said.

jambutty · 26-11-2008, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Are you disagreeing that it will take at least 150 years to pay back or not? The only difference error would make would be to extend the 150 years, and further reinforce my point.

Are you working this out, or just taking the view on a principled stand that I lumped them together therefore I cannot have an exact figure? If it's the latter then you haven't taken the effort to realise I have used the most conservative figures, and yet it still backs up what I said.

Another politician’s ruse. Deflect attention from the point in question by bringing in something new rather than admit that the point in question was at best inaccurate and at worst downright spin. I made no comment about the 150 years argument and I don’t intend to.

Lumping two statistics under one umbrella is always suspicious and makes me wonder what is being hidden.

In this case you stated that it costs us £2.6 billion in benefit fraud and errors. All I wanted to know is how much was down to fraud and how much was down to errors.

Let us suppose that £2 billion was down to error and only £0.6 to fraud. That wouldn’t give the pro ID cards brigade a case to back up their pro ID arguments seeing as the bulk of it is based on anti fraud, would it? But it would give the anti ID lot ammunition to accuse the government of incompetence in their departments.

Now I’m not going to argue this point with you any more. I’ve made my position clear.

jaysay · 27-11-2008, 11:51

emamum · 27-11-2008, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrelx

The USA want to put in legislation in that states visitors won't be able to enter the country unless the Security people have access to their e-mails to check if they have been in contact with anyone undesirable.

I dont find Gordon Brown particularly desirable, did he get into trouble?

Gordie · 01-12-2008, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by mothernature

There's a little problem with ID cards containing DNA information kept by our government. You have no idea what their real intentions are or wether they will sell/pass on those details to anyone and everyone. I for one do not want just anyone having my DNA information to manipulate or clone as they see fit. It only takes one unsavoury character to get that information and next thing you know the police are at the door because they have found your DNA at a crime scene. There is also the issue that DNA can be used to track people who have health problems. To my mind that is giving the government an open door policy to dictate in the future wether such people should be allowed to carry on producing offspring and don't think it can't happen either.

Sorry but you are being very silly that only happens in the films

jambutty · 01-12-2008, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordie

Sorry but you are being very silly that only happens in the films

Once upon a time there were films about rockets to the moon and men going there.

The only silly bit is your response to a suggestion what COULD happen.

Benipete · 01-12-2008, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Once upon a time there were films about rockets to the moon and men going there.

The only silly bit is your response to a suggestion what COULD happen.

Get real JB next you'll be telling us that the Earth isn't flat and we won't fall of the edge if we go to far.

If the police can collect and store DNA then anyone can!

Taggy · 01-12-2008, 17:32

If you've already got a Passport, i dont think you should also need to have an ID card as well. If they are going to be made compulsory at some point, this should only be for people who dont have or dont want a passport.

Best Regards - Taggy

Benipete · 01-12-2008, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taggy

If you've already got a Passport, i dont think you should also need to have an ID card as well. If they are going to be made compulsory at some point, this should only be for people who dont have or dont want a passport.

Best Regards - Taggy

Let me know how many passports you want.

Taggy · 01-12-2008, 18:13

Ive got one....so dont feel that i should need an ID card too!!!

Best Regards - Taggy

Gordie · 01-12-2008, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Once upon a time there were films about rockets to the moon and men going there.

The only silly bit is your response to a suggestion what COULD happen.

I guess there COULD be rocket fueled wheel chairs also going to the moon