Are we losing the War in Afghanistan?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Neil

Radioactive oil might work better

There might be a C change in attitude when the world actually runs out of oil and the Arabs no longer hold everybody by the short and curlies

[Neil]

That will be a long time off

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Neil

That will be a long time off

Exactly

[MargaretR]

Why hasn't Less told you all to shut up and cheer up ?

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

Why hasn't Less told you all to shut up and cheer up ?

He probably cares for the lads who are loosing their lives, as we all do.
Nothing cheerful in that?

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

Nothing cheerful in that?

I agree, but he doesn't like the doom and gloom threads.
He has told me to lighten up - but hasn't told you
Maybe gloomy threads that he agrees with are exempt

[Neil]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

Why hasn't Less told you all to shut up and cheer up ?

He like us

[Eric]

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Sorry Eric but have to disagree with that. If the troops pull out, aid is stopped exports there are banned then that gives justification that the west went in to stamp all over their beliefs and not to free the oppressed. That could lead to them becoming an example to others thus compounding the problem. The whole intervention in Iraq though with the same kind of ethos to free the people waas in my opinion more to do with oil than WMD's. Well that and the fact that Israel might have got peed of enough to nuke em. Afganistan is a country that for centuries given many mighty powers the international signal of defiance and as such there is no easy answer. The result many soldiers from certain countries dying fighting to free a country from an unjust system.

Of course the west went in to stamp all over their beliefs .... or, at best, the beliefs that we don't like, the ones that don't fit in with our different beliefs ... and who gave us the right to decide who is oppressed and who isn't ... I have no doubt the Taliban feel oppressed with all that high tech firepower pointed at their asses. The idea that we claim to be there for the benefit of the Afghanis is bs, and it sure as hell doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. Seems like we started the scrap, and are now scrambling to make up reasons why we are still there. Support for this conflict is at an all time low in this country .... the only positive thing is that support for our troops is at an all time high ... at least there are some French fighting over there ... men and women of the 22e Regiment (Van Doos) from Quebec.

[Eric]

We might or might not be losing the war, but we sure as hell keep losing soldiers. Pte. Sebastien Courcy, 2e battallion, Royal 22e Regiment, Regiment d'infanterie Canadien-francais: the 125th Canadian soldier to die in Afghanistan. Je me souviens.

[g jones]

I think we were right to go into Afghanistan. Problems over the border in the Swat Valley are of concern. Pakistan soldiers are also paying a heavy price fighting extremism.

On November 14, 2007, senior Pakistan Army officials said that from 2001 till November 14, 2007, at least 966 military men were killed and 2,259 others were injured. On October 23, 2008, the Pakistani Army confirmed that a total of 1,400 soldiers and paramilitaries had been killed since 2001. An additional 220 policemen were killed in fighting in 2007 and 2008. Some have speculated that the unofficial number of Pakistani soldiers killed in action to be somewhere around 3,000 by the late 2006

I am not a military person but I think we need to pump more aid (from all countries) in the Helmand Province to keep the Taliban/Extremists at bay. In Iraq we put locals on the army payroll and secured a better chance of peace/end of the war for the Coalition.

Each loss is terrible. I saw Greg (Pope) cry at Jason's funeral. Our soldiers need the nation behind them, there should no be no point scoring in the media or any politics. People are losing their lives and it should be a positive collective approach to the war. Cameron should spend more time visiting No.10 to sort out issues instead of running up and down Fleet Street.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by g jones

I think we were right to go into Afghanistan. Problems over the border in the Swat Valley are of concern. Pakistan soldiers are also paying a heavy price fighting extremism.
[Disagree but respect yer view.] Cashys Bit lol

On November 14, 2007, senior Pakistan Army officials said that from 2001 till November 14, 2007, at least 966 military men were killed and 2,259 others were injured. On October 23, 2008, the Pakistani Army confirmed that a total of 1,400 soldiers and paramilitaries had been killed since 2001. An additional 220 policemen were killed in fighting in 2007 and 2008. Some have speculated that the unofficial number of Pakistani soldiers killed in action to be somewhere around 3,000 by the late 2006

I am not a military person but I think we need to pump more aid (from all countries) in the Helmand Province to keep the Taliban/Extremists at bay. In Iraq we put locals on the army payroll and secured a better chance of peace/end of the war for the Coalition.

Each loss is terrible. I saw Greg (Pope) cry at Jason's funeral. Our soldiers need the nation behind them, there should no be no point scoring in the media or any politics. People are losing their lives and it should be a positive collective approach to the war. Cameron should spend more time visiting No.10 to sort out issues instead of running up and down Fleet Street.

don't know anyone who aint 100% behind our lads out yon, but know loads of ordinary folk who think they shouldn't be there, in fact most i know think that. do ya actually ever ask that question of the voters graham?

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by g jones

On November 14, 2007, senior Pakistan Army officials said that from 2001 till November 14, 2007, at least 966 military men were killed and 2,259 others were injured. On October 23, 2008, the Pakistani Army confirmed that a total of 1,400 soldiers and paramilitaries had been killed since 2001. An additional 220 policemen were killed in fighting in 2007 and 2008. Some have speculated that the unofficial number of Pakistani soldiers killed in action to be somewhere around 3,000 by the late 2006

.

a comendable sacrifice considering that their country is fighting a civil war . Seems the country has progressd from the days when Clement Attlee (Labour PM 1945-51) installed Ali Jinna as a secularist Prime Minister

Just wonder if the numbers are of British "ethnic" minority youth from North East Lancashire who are members of Her Majestys forces is proportinate to the rest of the general population ?

not throwing any stones , just a fact of life here in the US that both the Army has a higher percentage of African Americans , and the Marine corps has a higher percentage of Hispanic Americans than the general population .......though the causualty figures of dead and maimed from Iraq and Afghanistan don't reflect this .

[g jones]

Originally Posted by cashman

don't know anyone who aint 100% behind our lads out yon, but know loads of ordinary folk who think they shouldn't be there, in fact most i know think that. do ya actually ever ask that question of the voters graham?

I take the time to speak to anyone. I think you are right. Many voters now are against the war in Afghanistan with the losses mounting.

During the Falklands we lost 268 armed forces personnel. With the media blackout during that war, the public stayed in support despite the losses. I would like to see us there but not engaging as much in fighting. However the Army know best so I'll accept we are doing things right.

Are there any polls? Speaking to people it feels 2 thirds; 1 third, with the two thirds growing daily?

Originally Posted by steeljack

a comendable sacrifice considering that their country is fighting a civil war . Seems the country has progressd from the days when Clement Attlee (Labour PM 1945-51) installed Ali Jinna as a secularist Prime Minister

Just wonder if the numbers are of British "ethnic" minority youth from North East Lancashire who are members of Her Majestys forces is proportinate to the rest of the general population ?

not throwing any stones , just a fact of life here in the US that both the Army has a higher percentage of African Americans , and the Marine corps has a higher percentage of Hispanic Americans than the general population .......though the causualty figures of dead and maimed from Iraq and Afghanistan don't reflect this .

I think you're right.

One problem is the vast majority of Muslims do abide conscientiously by Islams mantra of peace. The biggest issues though are insularity (polarised communities) and double identity/cultural conflict (not wishing to fight for British values).

The Pakistan Army does not have problems of recruiting soldiers to fight, or to fight the Taliban even though the casualties are higher.

The US Army has an aggressive recruitment drive amongst the poor and unemployed and as you point out is non-Islamic.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by cashman

don't know anyone who aint 100% behind our lads out yon, but know loads of ordinary folk who think they shouldn't be there, in fact most i know think that. do ya actually ever ask that question of the voters graham?

Same over here .... even the Quebecois, who are more opposed to the war than any other Canadians, turn out in their thousands to cheer the men and women of the Van Doos as they leave for Kandahar. But who is doing the fighting over there? Check this out: Number of KIA by country: Australia, 11; Czech, 3; Denmark, 24; Estonia, 4; Finland, 1; France, 28; Germany, 33; Hungary, 2; Italy, 15; Latvia, 3; Lithuania, 1; Netherlands, 19; Norway, 4; Poland, 9; Portugal, 2; Romania, 11; S. Korea, 1; Spain, 25; Sweden, 2; Turkey, 2 .... and; Canada, 125; UK, 188; US, 749 ... now, who the eff is doing all the fighting over there? Canada's combat commitment in Afghanistan ends in 2011; and it won't be extended. We've had enough ... Canada will honour its commitment until the end of 2011 (god knows how many more lives that will cost); but, after that, it's someone else's turn.

Support Our Troops/Appouyons nos troupes.

[Mancie]

got to say Eric I'm surprised by the fact that so many countries are involed in Afghanistan...I'm not sure that a league table of killed in action is a good marker as to wether the war can be won, the figures may show which countries are more "commited" to this war but then some countries have more to lose than others if the Taliban are to be kept at bay.