Are we to blame?

[Bagpuss]

Originally Posted by steeljack

Are we to blame ? .......unequivcally NO, I'm getting more and more angry about all this politically correct tripe that is being laid at the doors of White Northern european culture for the plight of the third world, a guilt trip laid on us by the likes of HMG Minister Peter Hain , the one guy more responsible for the disaster thats happened in Rhodesia (Zimbabwee) than Mugabe himself , the same story that is now begining to unfold in South Africa and Namibia , exporpiation of land and businesses from white productive farmers to bone idle lazy political cronies who prefer to let their peoples starve, but lets not worry Bono and father of the year Bob Geldorf will arrange another pop concert and save everyone.

Re. the original question , was Britain to blame for the bloodbath that followed Indian and Pakistani independance .......No the people to blame are Ghandi, Ali Jinna , and Panjit Nehru......all three lived 'westernized' lives and none of them had any idea about the lives of the local populations but each had egos bigger than Tony Blair and George Bush's combined,
note, Ghandi never missed a photo 'op' in his "nappy" even though he had a good taste in his liking for Yorkshire woven woollen tweed suits, and was also partially responsible for the demise of the Lancashire cotton trade with his boycotts.

Linking to another thread about the Malay service medal and colonialism ....I think , this was one of Britain finest hours post WW2 , it was in a way Britains Vietnam and we won , wether it was because there were no TV cameras and the army (many of whom were 2 year national servicemen) were allowed to get on and do the job is up for speculation , but what is true is that two vibrant countries evolved from what at the time was called the "Malay emergancy'' Malaya and Singapore

ok rant over .......

Best post I have read for a while, karma when it lets me give you some, the truth is out there.

[Wynonie Harris]

India and Pakistan should be thankful that it was the British who colonised them and not the Spanish. If the latter nation had occupied their lands, they would have completely eradicated the Muslim, Hindu and Sikh religions and cultures in the name of Roman Catholicism, just as they did with the Inca, Mayan and Aztec civilisations in South and Central America.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

India and Pakistan should be thankful that it was the British who colonised them and not the Spanish. If the latter nation had occupied their lands, they would have completely eradicated the Muslim, Hindu and Sikh religions and cultures in the name of Roman Catholicism, just as they did with the Inca, Mayan and Aztec civilisations in South and Central America.

Just a thought which I have yet to completely think: it seems as if the post-colonial countries in South America are far more successful than the post-colonial cultures in Africa. In the sub-continent it might be different - it was just too bloody big and its cultures too strong to erradicate. I don't believe your argument would stand up to scrutiny ... maybe I'm wrong ... have to give it more thought.

[Wynonie Harris]

I reckon the Brits were far more interested in making money than making converts - that's why they left the local religions alone. The Spanish on the other hand were pretty fanatical about Roman Catholicism and saw it as their duty to eradicate "pagan" religions. I've certainly had a few South Americans tell me they'd rather have been colonised by the British instead of the Spanish!

[Bagpuss]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

I've certainly had a few South Americans tell me they'd rather have been colonised by the British instead of the Spanish!

If that had been the case we would have had an influx of South Americans as well as Asians into our country once the British Empire ended, thank you Spain.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Bagpuss

If that had been the case we would have had an influx of South Americans

There's more here than you think...gringo.

[bullseyebarb]

No apologies necessary. I echo Steeljack.

[Bagpuss]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

There's more here than you think...gringo.

Like all the asians I'm sure there all here legally

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Bagpuss

Like all the asians I'm sure there all here legally

All the ones I know are...in fact, they're all law-abiding, hardworking citizens...unlike certain British-born residents I've had the misfortune to come across!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

India and Pakistan should be thankful that it was the British who colonised them and not the Spanish. If the latter nation had occupied their lands, they would have completely eradicated the Muslim, Hindu and Sikh religions and cultures in the name of Roman Catholicism, just as they did with the Inca, Mayan and Aztec civilisations in South and Central America.

Would that have been a good or bad thing now looking back?

[Wynonie Harris]

Must admit, I can't answer that one. The idea of an RC, Spanish-speaking India is a strange concept!

[Eric]

I think that the question is too broad ... If asked, should the Americans apologize to the blacks for slavery, or the British should apologize to the same people for shipping them to America, I would say no. It was too long ago, and values were different, hell people just plain thought differently. I don't think that the "sins of the fathers thing" makes any sense. But, what about things done fairly recently? What about when the victims are still alive and suffering from being a "victimized" minority? What about "crimes" against humanity, where the perps are still around to answer for their crimes? I believe that this is a different case, but still under the heading "are we to blame?" But I still think that the blame should be shouldered, not by the citizens, but by governments on whose watch the s**t happened, and by those directly involved. For example, in Canada, thousands of First Nations children were taken from their families and sent to residential schools, whr the attempt was made to turn them into "civilized" whites. Many of them were subject to physical, mental, and sexual abuse. Canadian govts admit that past (not so very past) govts are to blame. And "teachers" from these schools, many of them belonging to religious groups, are being held to account.

Another brief point: who is going to apologize to the people of Iraq for the mess their country is in?