Argies upto no good again !!! - Page 4

Acrylic-bob · 21-02-2010, 12:57

Only if I get to press the button! Har-har.

MargaretR · 21-02-2010, 13:06

This war talk amongst you older men sickens me.
You should only be advocating an action that you would be willing to take an active part in.
Another war front just means that your grandsons die and suffer on your behalf.
That is asking too much.

Tealeaf · 21-02-2010, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR

This war talk amongst you older men sickens me.
You should only be advocating an action that you would be willing to take an active part in.
Another war front just means that your grandsons die and suffer on your behalf.
That is asking too much.

Why don't you just stick with Flying Saucers, Margaret and leave the problems of the real world for us men to sort out.

DaveinGermany · 21-02-2010, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR

This war talk amongst you older men sickens me.
You should only be advocating an action that you would be willing to take an active part in.
Another war front just means that your grandsons die and suffer on your behalf.
That is asking too much.

Marg no one is advocating a war, just passing comment on Argentinas continued insistence that the Falkland Islands should be handed over to them, more so now with the thought of maybe oil being found within their boundaries.

Since the Government won't even sit at a table with the Argentines to discuss things as long as they demand the Falklands & the Islanders themselves wanting no part of Argentina. All that's left to them to save face is these empty threats, but it still doesn't stop them being a nuisance about the whole thing.

As to peoples Sons & Daughter, Brothers, Husbands dying in a foreign land, you're looking at the wrong people. You want someone to blame look to the Government of the Day (regardless of which Country). The reason these Lads & Lasses are sent off to fight & die is because the Government of that Country is incompetent & can't handle the situation through diplomatic means & bring out the "Big Stick" its Armed Forces. sadly it's then these folk who suffer the casualties & fatalities & not the Politicians who sent them.

If we sent the Politicos & their crowd along to physically fight it out between themselves, I do believe the decision to commit troops would very seldom arise & a political solution would be sooner found.

cashman · 21-02-2010, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Marg no one is advocating a war, just passing comment on Argentinas continued insistence that the Falkland Islands should be handed over to them, more so now with the thought of maybe oil being found within their boundaries.

Since the Government won't even sit at a table with the Argentines to discuss things as long as they demand the Falklands & the Islanders themselves wanting no part of Argentina. All that's left to them to save face is these empty threats, but it still doesn't stop them being a nuisance about the whole thing.

As to peoples Sons & Daughter, Brothers, Husbands dying in a foreign land, you're looking at the wrong people. You want someone to blame look to the Government of the Day (regardless of which Country). The reason these Lads & Lasses are sent off to fight & die is because the Government of that Country is incompetent & can't handle the situation through diplomatic means & bring out the "Big Stick" its Armed Forces. sadly it's then these folk who suffer the casualties & fatalities & not the Politicians who sent them.

If we sent the Politicos & their crowd along to physically fight it out between themselves, I do believe the decision to commit troops would very seldom arise & a political solution would be sooner found.

IF two letters biggest word in english language.

DaveinGermany · 21-02-2010, 15:00

Incidentally I have taken an active part in a war & believe me a day didn't go by where I didn't think "Why am I here?". The answer was simple because the Government couldn't sort it so we had to try to.

Then once we got the upper hand & were getting ready to square the problem away guess what .......Politicians stuck their beaks in again & stopped us. The Job still wasn't done & that is why the Lads & Lasses of the Forces are still fighting & dying in a Foreign Land.

Acrylic-bob · 21-02-2010, 15:50

Margaret, in an ideal world there would be no need for a big stick and the willingness to use it. But, sadly, we live in a far from ideal world. The rapaciousness and arrogant stupidity of our political classes ensures that a big stick will always be needed. Because if it is not our politicians who are causing the trouble then you can be sure it will be other nation's politicians who are at the source of the aggravation. There seems no way out of this. This year it is Afghanistan which is the focus, next year who knows, maybe Iran? And the year after that, North Korea?

That is why, as taxpayers, we continue to judge it wise to maintain a volunteer standing army which we hope is of sufficient deterrence by its presence alone. Unfortunately, as DaveinGermany points out, it is sometimes necessary to use our big stick. When that happens it is usually because the idiots we choose to lead us can easily talk their way into trouble but are not too hot at talking their way out of it again. If you wish to apportion blame for the often pointless loss of our brightest and best then be sure to lay it at the correct door.

Eric · 21-02-2010, 17:18

If HM government are looking for allies, diplomatic or military, don't forget that the US owes you big time for being their only real allies in the "War on Terror." They see South America as their sphere of influence; and, with their military and economic muscle, and a desire for stability in the area, they could easily broker a diplomatic solution which would favor the one true friend they have had in the world over the past decade or so .....

Acrylic-bob · 21-02-2010, 17:44

Yeah right, there is about as much possibility of that happening as there is of Osama Bin Laden being awarded the Congressional Medal of Honour.

cashman · 21-02-2010, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

Yeah right, there is about as much possibility of that happening as there is of Osama Bin Laden being awarded the Congressional Medal of Honour.

Wrong bob, more chance of osama gettin it.

Eric · 21-02-2010, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

Yeah right, there is about as much possibility of that happening as there is of Osama Bin Laden being awarded the Congressional Medal of Honour.

I wouldn't be so sure on this one ... esp. if there is oil to be found .... the US can't actually, or won't, go in and grab the oil themselves; so, they would rather see it under British control .... most of the oil that the US imports comes from us; and the reason is: the stability of Canada. If there is oil the US would not like to see it under the control of Argentina, or any other state with a history of political instability.

Oh, and it is Medal of Honor; they dropped the "Congressional" bit a while back.

DaveinGermany · 21-02-2010, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

If HM government are looking for allies, diplomatic or military, don't forget that the US owes you big time for being their only real allies in the "War on Terror." They see South America as their sphere of influence; and, with their military and economic muscle, and a desire for stability in the area, they could easily broker a diplomatic solution which would favor the one true friend they have had in the world over the past decade or so .....

Initial thoughts ...... no thank you, we can manage well enough on our own, I mean we did back in 1982 & it was all over within a few months. The Americans got involved in the NI peace process with Ol' Bill "Trousers" Clinton back in what was it 1992 ish, we didn't get that sorted until 2007.

A somewhat drawn out & tedious process on reflection & in all honesty the American influence didn't really bring too much to the negotiations except the flow of arms was slowed down to the terrorists & somewhere neutral to hold talks.

Our latest joint foray into Political negotiations with the Americans into a third Country pretty much speaks for itself really Iraq & Afghanistan, enough said on the topic already I believe. But should Oil be found in & around the Falkland Islands I believe we may well obtain American "Assistance" in one form or another asked for or not !

Jaundiced ? Cynical ? why ever would you think that ?

As the direction this thread has taken was instigated by an American view on how the Falkland Islanders may have perceived the British opinion of them to be, could we please have some views from the Americans as to the validity of our points ?

Acrylic-bob · 21-02-2010, 18:34

Well, as it is, according to a map I have seen, the oil reseves so far located are under British control and as we have seen HMG is unlikley to relinquish control voluntarily.

As for America rewarding its one true friend and ally, we had ample demonstration of it's sense of obligation when the contracts were handed out for the reconstruction in Iraq. Speaking personally, I would not trust America to act out of anything other than self-interest.

Eric · 21-02-2010, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Initial thoughts ...... no thank you, we can manage well enough on our own, I mean we did back in 1982 & it was all over within a few months. The Americans got involved in the NI peace process with Ol' Bill "Trousers" Clinton back in what was it 1992 ish, we didn't get that sorted until 2007.

A somewhat drawn out & tedious process on reflection & in all honesty the American influence didn't really bring too much to the negotiations except the flow of arms was slowed down to the terrorists & somewhere neutral to hold talks.

Our latest joint foray into Political negotiations with the Americans into a third Country pretty much speaks for itself really Iraq & Afghanistan, enough said on the topic already I believe. But should Oil be found in & around the Falkland Islands I believe we may well obtain American "Assistance" in one form or another asked for or not !

Jaundiced ? Cynical ? why ever would you think that ?

As the direction this thread has taken was instigated by an a American view on how the Falkland Islanders may have perceived the British opinion of them to be, could we please have some views from the Americans as to the validity of our points ?

Well, I'm not American, but I'll add my two cents' worth: America will act in the best interests of America, and why not? Canada still has the luxury of being able to act in the best interests of Canada ... seems like, from what many of you say, the United Kingdom has lost, or is quickly losing that option; it's been swallowed up by that EU monster. Your true friends in this world are probably the English speaking peoples of North America, not Merkel, Sarkozy and crew. This, by the way, is only the opinion of an outsider looking in.

So, tell Europe to screw off on this one, and do what is best for Britain. I realize that 1944 seems like a long time ago; but it is still within living memory of many folks: it was Britain, the US, and Canada who went ashore at Normandy to kick German ass and give France back to the French who were unwilling to defend it in 1940. Ok, so this aint 1944, or 1982; and the world has changed a helluva lot; but I believe that the natural affinities (for want of space, I'll stick with this simplification) are still there.

DaveinGermany · 21-02-2010, 19:33

Pretty much on the mark Eric, too much of Britains Sovereignty has been erode & handed over to the melting pot in Brussels, they then send out dictates as to how we as a Nation should behave, respond, shop weigh & measure things, the rot is already deeply set in.

It wouldn't be impossible to try & turn things round but it would be quite painful & expensive to change the Countries ultimate demise into another bland conformist Euroland. The "British people" on the other hand have been so diluted by immigration that an Authentic British opinion would not be forthcoming.

A return to the days of W.A.S.P nations working together & with each other & Europe being a favoured trading partner are a long lost memory in the UK. Most people probably aren't even aware of its meaning (go on google it). It also appears that there is insufficient push from the Politicians to even consider the possibility of reversing the trend & so we plod blithely on into Euro ignominy.