Arndale another one bites the dust.

[MoreJoe]

First look at the town arteries. They have all been blocked or choked. I was shocked when I visited the town and found no simple way in or through from any point of the compass. There used to be a vibrant market, but there also used to be a bus service to and from all points of the town and surrounds (Oswaldtwistle, Church, Clayton, Dill Hall, Ormerod etc.) at a frequency of about a one every 5 to 10 minutes. Parking used to be semi adequate rather than prohibitive. As I wove through the town and over the speed bumps in my rental car, as best I could, I kept thinking "God help the locals if they need to get emergency vehicles to their house in a hurry"
In short the message thrown off by the town feels like "Don't come here, don't park here, don't even try to cruise through here!"
Sounds like the perfect spot to put a retail operation.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I think I mentioned this point in post 134....that 'the town planners had ripped the heart out of the town'.
And as Guinness has observed, I think it has got past the point of any kind of rescue mission.
People won't come to look at the tubs of flowers on Broadway. You know, the ones that procalim us a 'Floral Market Town'........what will they put on them when the market is dead and buried?

[lindsay ormerod]

Just to clarify I "shop online" for my big shop, once a month because I don't drive ( and because I work 40+ hours a week), if I need anything else I either pick it up on my way through Blackburn( where I work) or from Spar on Burnley Rd.On the rare occasion that I have money to spend on clothes it's usually Peacocks!

Shopping online is sometimes the only option too, as I found out when the last 2 things I wanted from Marks and Spencer weren't stocked in my size,but at least you collect from the store there which I suppose encourages you to have a mooch round.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

If people can get the same or a similar product for less elsewhere, then that is what they will do.......and as for use it or lose it...you can't use something that isn't there. Shopping habits have changed.......people have less money to spend, but yet the shops open 7 days a week...where is the sense in that.
Opening more days costs more money so therefore eats into profits....ah Yes, I hear you say, but if they don't open then people will go online or to the supermarket.......so there is no real answer. Except, we have been to Bury today and the Market was very busy, (this inspite of the fact that it was a miserable grey day with the threat of rain). Why do you think that is?
It might have something to do with the fact that it is a good market with a very diverse range of produce at very competitive prices.
We went through Ramsbottom......a small town. Even that was very busy, with shoppers thronging the main street.
What these towns are doing to bring in trade...surely, could be emulated by Accrington.

You can't turn the clock back Margaret, the decline of accy town centre started in the late 80s early 90s and escalated, once its gone it never comes back, I remember writing a letter to the Observer in around 92 saying it wouldn't be long before tumbleweeds would be blowing around Broadway instead of customers, looks like I got that one spot on

[garinda]

'The council say the high figure of empty shops is a reflection of the recession and urged local people to support their town centre.'

Call to support Accrington shops as closure figure hits an all-time high (From Lancashire Telegraph)

People might feel more welcome if our councillors stop doing things like removing the soddin' benches, from outside of the Market Hall.

Admittedly there is an issue with with drunks, and druggies in our town.

Address that problem.

Don't punish everyone, by removing facilities used by everyone.

Yes, I know I harp on about this, but it's just one small example of the type of idiotic thinking, by those in control, which is helping to kill this once vibrant town.

Another was allowing a town centre superstore.

Who because our councillors passed the planning permission for this, were bunged a million pounds plus.

Which means for a few short years the flowers towers will look pretty...as the tumbleweed rolls past the ever increasing empty shops.

For those local politicans who think moving the bus station will improve things, dream on.

It'll be somewhere nice for people to wait, as they queue to shop elsewhere.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

If people can get the same or a similar product for less elsewhere, then that is what they will do.......and as for use it or lose it...you can't use something that isn't there. Shopping habits have changed.......people have less money to spend, but yet the shops open 7 days a week...where is the sense in that.
Opening more days costs more money so therefore eats into profits....ah Yes, I hear you say, but if they don't open then people will go online or to the supermarket.......so there is no real answer. Except, we have been to Bury today and the Market was very busy, (this inspite of the fact that it was a miserable grey day with the threat of rain). Why do you think that is?
It might have something to do with the fact that it is a good market with a very diverse range of produce at very competitive prices.
We went through Ramsbottom......a small town. Even that was very busy, with shoppers thronging the main street.
What these towns are doing to bring in trade...surely, could be emulated by Accrington.

Unfortunately there are those who sit behind the throne who have very little experience, when it comes to the reality of commerce.

Accrington is never going to be a wooly liberal, Free Trade, arty-farty craft haven, because the town doesn't have the demographic to support such a place.

We do have a population that would have supported a thriving market, but those numpties in charge have managed to kill that.

Leaving towns like Bury to benefit, by attracting even more shoppers to their own market.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by garinda

one small example of the type of idiotic thinking, by those in control, which is helping to kill this once vibrant town.

Another was allowing a town centre superstore.

Who because our councillors passed the planning permission for this, were bunged a million pounds plus.

I know I've been away from Accy for a long time, but I thought we are always being told that out of town superstores are a bad thing for town centres and now I hear that a town centre superstore is a bad idea. I always thought that Accy was being shortchanged by only having one of the Big Four supermarkets in town, but now there are two, that is not seen as a good thing. I'm confused.

[garinda]

I've only been in Tesco's twice. Once, to collect for a charity.

It was amazing, the number of local councillors I saw shopping in there.

The only two councillors I regularly see shopping in the town centre, are Bernard Dawson, and Wendy Dwyer.

Perhaps others do, but I just haven't seen them, on my twice weekly shopping visits.

Yes, shopping habits have changed.

Paying lip service is fine, but won't help sustain struggling local businesses.

Actually shopping with them, most are more than happy to share the problems they face in Accrington.

Something those in control won't be getting in Tesco's.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by susie123

I know I've been away from Accy for a long time, but I thought we are always being told that out of town superstores are a bad thing for town centres and now I hear that a town centre superstore is a bad idea. I always thought that Accy was being shortchanged by only having one of the Big Four supermarkets in town, but now there are two, that is not seen as a good thing. I'm confused.

Habits have changed.

Many people do like loading up their cars once a week at a supermarket.

However all available information points to the fact that where town centre supermarkets have been granted planning permission, it does have a devastating effect on those small independents, who have somehow managed to stay in business.

Up until that point, at least.

The towns that do still have varied independent retail businesses, generally tend not to have massive town centre supermarkets in those places.

[cashman]

very apt.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by garinda

Habits have changed.

Many people do like loading up their cars once a week at a supermarket.

However all available information points to the fact that where town centre supermarkets have been granted planning permission, it does have a devastating effect on those small independents, who have somehow managed to stay in business.

Up until that point, at least.

The towns that do still have varied independent retail businesses, generally tend not to have massive town centre supermarkets in those places.

Yes but even with lots of independent shops most people are still going to do a supermarket type shop every so often. In towns without supermarkets and with independent shops people will have to go to out of town supermarkets for this.

Independent shops tend not to be those where one can buy food, rather they are the type that was lamented in an earlier post; craft shops, bookshops, toyshops etc. And where they do sell food, I can't see folk existing solely on stuff from the likes of the Black Horse Deli, even if they could afford it.

At one time the indoor and outdoor markets supplied all that was necessary in the way of food, with a choice of stalls. Now that choice is limited. The redevelopment of the market, especially outside, has a lot to answer for here.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by susie123

At one time the indoor and outdoor markets supplied all that was necessary in the way of food, with a choice of stalls. Now that choice is limited. The redevelopment of the market, especially outside, has a lot to answer for here.

It wasn't just food, it was everything that you can now buy in supermarkets.

Clothes, toys, shoes, home furnishing, the list is endless.

As Lindsay posted, Accrington's few remaining market stalls are fine if you want a mobile phone unlocked, or some dodgy knock-off stuff.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by garinda

It wasn't just food, it was everything that you can now buy in supermarkets.

Clothes, toys, shoes, home furnishing, the list is endless.

As Lindsay posted, Accrington's few remaining market stalls are fine if you want a mobile phone unlocked, or some dodgy knock-off stuff.

Exactly.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Another problem is that now with the advent of the Accrington Observer campaign to get business to Support Maundy Grange, these traders are actually supporting the people who make Accrington a less than pleasant place to shop.
I suppose they feel that if they support something like this local charity, it will endear them to the shoppers. They don't see that some of these undesirables are impacting on trade.

But this is only one of the facets of the problem.......transport links, and the high cost of transport(public) the pedestrianisation of the roads that brought people into the town, the mess that was made of the market, the very poor shopping experience that the Arndale provides.....loss of individual shops all have had an impact......the internet and online shopping seems to be the final nail in the coffin.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Another problem is that now with the advent of the Accrington Observer campaign to get business to Support Maundy Grange, these traders are actually supporting the people who make Accrington a less than pleasant place to shop.
I suppose they feel that if they support something like this local charity, it will endear them to the shoppers. They don't see that some of these undesirables are impacting on trade.

But this is only one of the facets of the problem.......transport links, and the high cost of transport(public) the pedestrianisation of the roads that brought people into the town, the mess that was made of the market, the very poor shopping experience that the Arndale provides.....loss of individual shops all have had an impact......the internet and online shopping seems to be the final nail in the coffin.

You're right Margaret, it's a real cocktail of problems that can't be cured by one quick fix.