Asda Restrict Alchohol Sales - Page 2

Neil · 07-03-2008, 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSz

Dont take this the wrong way but you're missing the point. Whilst I agree that this may well be a Google Page Ranking exercise, ASDA, and any other retailer for that matter can refuse to sell anything for whatever reason they like. They dont have an obligation to sell and you dont have a right to buy. The license allows them to sell (within its terms), it doesnt require them to. When you take goods to the till, you are making an 'invitation to treat' and an offer to buy. They can accept or refuse your offer. They could, for arguments sake, decide that they are only going to sell products to 147 year old women wearing red jumpers and that would be perfectly lawful.

You are of course correct. The exact same point was discussed at length but one member was very awkward about accepting the truth. I can't remember if he ever did and can't be bothered reading 188 posts to find out. Have a read yourself mate, here is a link to the thread.

MikeSz · 07-03-2008, 11:07

My goodness that thread went on a bit!

to clear up an earlier point on this thread, most supermarkets have been pushed towards this stricter stance on alcohol sales for some time. Political reasons aside (and there are plenty of political influences on this policy) there are also legal reasons for it.

If a trader sells alcohol to an underage purchaser, it can be a defence for that trader to show that they have systems in place designed to prevent it - known as a 'due dilligence' defence. So by having a 21 policy they can argue that they are a responsible retailer with systems and procedures designed to ensure they comply with the law.

And Blazey has a point, its not just the supermarkets, its a much bigger problem and its quite staggering to look at the statistics on underage drinking since 1997, which is when alco-pops started to appear. The problem is much bigger than the odd rogue sale of alcohol.

Neil · 07-03-2008, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSz

My goodness that thread went on a bit!

I hope you read all 188 posts, there will be a quiz later

MikeSz · 07-03-2008, 11:15

I quickly read through the first couple of pages and having satisfied myself on understanding the general aura of the topic decided against prolonging the endeavour.

katex · 07-03-2008, 13:40

Maybe plans ahead to increase tax on alcopops and strong cider from the Tory party .. not sure if it would help. Suppose a start to conquer binge drinking, although a social problem really :-

BBC NEWS | Politics | Tories plan 'alcopops' tax hike

Don't worry fellas, won't affect yer beer ... (or my wine) ..

Neil · 07-03-2008, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

Maybe plans ahead to increase tax on alcopops and strong cider from the Tory party

Stupid Tory idea if you ask me. People will just drink more less strong beer abd cider.

jambutty · 07-03-2008, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSz

Dont take this the wrong way but you're missing the point. Whilst I agree that this may well be a Google Page Ranking exercise, ASDA, and any other retailer for that matter can refuse to sell anything for whatever reason they like. They dont have an obligation to sell and you dont have a right to buy. The license allows them to sell (within its terms), it doesnt require them to. When you take goods to the till, you are making an 'invitation to treat' and an offer to buy. They can accept or refuse your offer. They could, for arguments sake, decide that they are only going to sell products to 147 year old women wearing red jumpers and that would be perfectly lawful.

I think that it is you who is avoiding the point.

The licensing laws state WHEN A PREMISES HAS TO BE OPEN for the sale of booze and what types of booze can be sold. There used to be pubs and off sales that were only licensed to sell beer. There used to be one such pub on Shadsworth Road where it were joined by Rothesay Road in Blackburn. I accept that the vendor can refuse to make a sale but the vendor has to have a viable reason and see next paragraph but two. ***

By stating that Asda will not sell booze on a Friday between midnight and 6:00am they are in effect closing the booze selling section down for that time and are thus in breach of the licensing laws. Unless, as I have already stated, Asda has had their license altered to reflect their intention.

If a customer entered Asda between those hours with the intention of buying a bottle of rum or whatever and he was obviously well behaved and not under the influence of anything, Asda would have to sell him the rum. If Asda refused then the customer would have a case to take to the Trading Standards Office.

*** The fact that the goods are on display with a price tag is in effect saying that the vendor is willing to sell those goods at the displayed price and must accept an offer to buy them at the asking price, unless the vendor has a good reason not to sell.

If you take such goods to the counter with intent to buy (meaning that you have the wherewithal to do so and the vendor can see that you have) the vendor must sell them to you at that price. However the vendor can reduce the price if the customer and the vendor are prepared to haggle, but cannot increase it. Suddenly declaring that those goods are only for sale to a 147 years old woman wearing a red jumper is not a good enough reason – unless a notice to that affect is prominently displayed in the shop.

If the goods do not display a price tag then the vendor is not under any obligation to sell the goods. The goods are just on display and inviting an offer for them. The vendor can refuse any offer if he chooses to.

In practice no vendor is going to refuse to make a sale if it would be legal to complete it. Not if he wants to stay in business, he won’t.

slinky · 07-03-2008, 17:35

I was always under the impression that, when ASDA went 24 hours, they had a time limit on booze. I'm sure they did when they first opened up as 24 ( But could be wrong, so don't shoot me ).

Then all of a sudden, you could go and buy booze whatever time of day/night.

Now they have decided to go back to the first plan

lancsdave · 07-03-2008, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky

I was always under the impression that, when ASDA went 24 hours, they had a time limit on booze. I'm sure they did when they first opened up as 24 ( But could be wrong, so don't shoot me ).

Then all of a sudden, you could go and buy booze whatever time of day/night.

Now they have decided to go back to the first plan

They were opening 24 hours when the old licencing laws were in place so they had to shut off the alchohol sections.

slinky · 07-03-2008, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave

They were opening 24 hours when the old licencing laws were in place so they had to shut off the alchohol sections.

Oh yes, I forgot about that.....thanks Dave

shillelagh · 07-03-2008, 17:46

So if they shut off the alcohol sections again theyre not breaking any laws then

*** The fact that the goods are on display with a price tag is in effect saying that the vendor is willing to sell those goods at the displayed price and must accept an offer to buy them at the asking price, unless the vendor has a good reason not to sell.
(from jambuttys above post)

as they are not displaying the items.

jambutty · 08-03-2008, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by shillelagh

So if they shut off the alcohol sections again theyre not breaking any laws then

*** The fact that the goods are on display with a price tag is in effect saying that the vendor is willing to sell those goods at the displayed price and must accept an offer to buy them at the asking price, unless the vendor has a good reason not to sell.
(from jambuttys above post)

as they are not displaying the items.

The liquor license stipulates WHEN the premises HAS to be open to sell alcohol. The licensee cannot just arbitrarily not open when he chooses, unless he has applied to the local authority to amend the terms of the liquor license. The other side of that coin is that a licensee cannot extend his opening hours without first applying to do so.

Asda may well have done that.

If Asda has then the booze section must be cordoned off during those hours.

MikeSz · 08-03-2008, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

I think that it is you who is avoiding the point.

The licensing laws state WHEN A PREMISES HAS TO BE OPEN for the sale of booze and what types of booze can be sold. There used to be pubs and off sales that were only licensed to sell beer. There used to be one such pub on Shadsworth Road where it were joined by Rothesay Road in Blackburn. I accept that the vendor can refuse to make a sale but the vendor has to have a viable reason and see next paragraph but two. ***

By stating that Asda will not sell booze on a Friday between midnight and 6:00am they are in effect closing the booze selling section down for that time and are thus in breach of the licensing laws. Unless, as I have already stated, Asda has had their license altered to reflect their intention.

If a customer entered Asda between those hours with the intention of buying a bottle of rum or whatever and he was obviously well behaved and not under the influence of anything, Asda would have to sell him the rum. If Asda refused then the customer would have a case to take to the Trading Standards Office.

*** The fact that the goods are on display with a price tag is in effect saying that the vendor is willing to sell those goods at the displayed price and must accept an offer to buy them at the asking price, unless the vendor has a good reason not to sell.

If you take such goods to the counter with intent to buy (meaning that you have the wherewithal to do so and the vendor can see that you have) the vendor must sell them to you at that price. However the vendor can reduce the price if the customer and the vendor are prepared to haggle, but cannot increase it. Suddenly declaring that those goods are only for sale to a 147 years old woman wearing a red jumper is not a good enough reason – unless a notice to that affect is prominently displayed in the shop.

If the goods do not display a price tag then the vendor is not under any obligation to sell the goods. The goods are just on display and inviting an offer for them. The vendor can refuse any offer if he chooses to.

In practice no vendor is going to refuse to make a sale if it would be legal to complete it. Not if he wants to stay in business, he won’t.

Hate to say this but you are completely wrong. The licence gives PERMISSION. It does not give an OBLIGATION. ASDA dont have to sell anything they dont want to - its just that simple. You have no contract with ASDA as a consumer and they dont HAVE to sell you anything. I have both the applicable Trading Standards Qualifications and have been an Officer with Trading Standards for over 8 years so I'm sorry but you're just going to have to accept it.

MikeSz · 08-03-2008, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

I think that it is you who is avoiding the point.

The licensing laws state WHEN A PREMISES HAS TO BE OPEN for the sale of booze and what types of booze can be sold. There used to be pubs and off sales that were only licensed to sell beer. There used to be one such pub on Shadsworth Road where it were joined by Rothesay Road in Blackburn. I accept that the vendor can refuse to make a sale but the vendor has to have a viable reason and see next paragraph but two. ***

By stating that Asda will not sell booze on a Friday between midnight and 6:00am they are in effect closing the booze selling section down for that time and are thus in breach of the licensing laws. Unless, as I have already stated, Asda has had their license altered to reflect their intention.

If a customer entered Asda between those hours with the intention of buying a bottle of rum or whatever and he was obviously well behaved and not under the influence of anything, Asda would have to sell him the rum. If Asda refused then the customer would have a case to take to the Trading Standards Office.

*** The fact that the goods are on display with a price tag is in effect saying that the vendor is willing to sell those goods at the displayed price and must accept an offer to buy them at the asking price, unless the vendor has a good reason not to sell.

If you take such goods to the counter with intent to buy (meaning that you have the wherewithal to do so and the vendor can see that you have) the vendor must sell them to you at that price. However the vendor can reduce the price if the customer and the vendor are prepared to haggle, but cannot increase it. Suddenly declaring that those goods are only for sale to a 147 years old woman wearing a red jumper is not a good enough reason – unless a notice to that affect is prominently displayed in the shop.

If the goods do not display a price tag then the vendor is not under any obligation to sell the goods. The goods are just on display and inviting an offer for them. The vendor can refuse any offer if he chooses to.

In practice no vendor is going to refuse to make a sale if it would be legal to complete it. Not if he wants to stay in business, he won’t.

"The licensing laws state WHEN A PREMISES HAS TO BE OPEN" - No it doesnt. It states when a premises is PERMITTED to sell. Not obligated

"If a customer entered Asda between those hours with the intention of buying a bottle of rum or whatever and he was obviously well behaved and not under the influence of anything, Asda would have to sell him the rum." - Nonsense. You dont have a legal right to buy anything from ASDA - until they take your money, you dont have a contract with them. Nor is it a breach of the licensing laws as they are not obligated to sell, only allowed to.

"If you take such goods to the counter with intent to buy (meaning that you have the wherewithal to do so and the vendor can see that you have) the vendor must sell them to you at that price. However the vendor can reduce the price if the customer and the vendor are prepared to haggle, but cannot increase it. Suddenly declaring that those goods are only for sale to a 147 years old woman wearing a red jumper is not a good enough reason – unless a notice to that affect is prominently displayed in the shop." - Im sorry to say that this is also completely wrong. No price is binding. The trader can refuse your offer for whatever reason they like. The law is such so as to allow traders to make mistakes. You have no right to buy goods and you cant hold a trader to a price. Simple as that. The trader can sometimes commit a criminal offence for supplying misleading price indications but this doesnt apply to you as a consumer and is not really applicable here.

cashman · 08-03-2008, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSz

Hate to say this but you are completely wrong. The licence gives PERMISSION. It does not give an OBLIGATION. ASDA dont have to sell anything they dont want to - its just that simple. You have no contract with ASDA as a consumer and they dont HAVE to sell you anything. I have both the applicable Trading Standards Qualifications and have been an Officer with Trading Standards for over 8 years so I'm sorry but you're just going to have to accept it.

what makes ya think you are right Mikesz? you only work for em.