Asian women and the English language. - Page 3

Stuart · 06-03-2007, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagpuss

To the point, I don't give a fig whether they can speak English because I wouldn't have them here.

The only problem with this is most of the companies are owned by asians for example Tetley Tea , Mittal and his steel empire, Corus owned by Indians, plus loads of others are owned by asians

or maybe Bagpuss is okay working for rich asians..

Come to think of it most doctors asians, what happens when they leave.

West Ender · 06-03-2007, 21:48

There is no excuse for anyone migrating to another country not to learn the language. You get the same thing, albeit in a totally different context, with British people who migrate to sunny Spain and live in British "colonies" all living together and speaking only English and a tiny bit of fractured Spanish. No, I know it's not everyone who does it but, you must admit, a lot do. Well, OK, they're not dependant on the Spanish Economy to provide them with a living and they don't claim benefits from the Spanish government but it's still, in my opinion, insulting to the natives not to learn their language.

When someone comes here to be "British" it should be a legal requirement that they learn at least the basics of English. So, Mrs. Immigrant, where ever in the world you come from, be it Asia, Europe or the Moon, my taxes are paying for your family's Child Benefit, Tax Credits, Income Support, Job Seekers Allowance, Housing Benefit, children's education, NHS treatment. You'd better say thank you in my language, OK?

WillowTheWhisp · 07-03-2007, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by mani

what about the men?

what if they cant speak english?

Good point. It would seem the unPC Mr Straw was being a trifle sexist.

Lampman · 07-03-2007, 17:33

Mr.Straw is just testing the water for Tony boy if we getan adverse reaction.Tony will say 'nothing to do with me!'

Gayle · 07-03-2007, 19:06

Can I add to the argument something that I think is being overlooked. You're assuming that these women (or men) are actually coming here by choice. Forced marriage is a totally different situation from arranged marriage. In an arranged marriage the woman (or man) can always say no. In a forced marriage there is no option. If a woman is forced into a marriage they don't have any choice about whether they are brought over to the UK or not and they certainly don't have any option about learning the language.

In theory, I actually agree that to live in the UK there should be some effort made about speaking the language - I certainly would if I lived abroad. However, in practice this is not always possible.

grego · 07-03-2007, 20:03

The immigration procedure is still the same married or not, someone forced to come here by marriage would surely benefit from having to learn the language and intigrate rather than being kept as a slave in the home.

Gayle · 07-03-2007, 21:53

Well yes I totally agree they would benefit, but if they are trapped they may not be able to get out to learn the language and integrate. The word 'slave' is very appropriate as that's what they are. It could actually stop some forced marraiges if there were some sort of immigration controls put in at the point where they are being brought into the country. So would be a good thing from that point of view.

cashman · 07-03-2007, 22:17

There is no excuse for anyone migrating to another country not to learn the language. You get the same thing, albeit in a totally different context, with British people who migrate to sunny Spain and live in British "colonies" all living together and speaking only English and a tiny bit of fractured Spanish. No, I know it's not everyone who does it but, you must admit, a lot do. Well, OK, they're not dependant on the Spanish Economy to provide them with a living and they don't claim benefits from the Spanish government but it's still, in my opinion, insulting to the natives not to learn their language.--- --------------thats easy to say if youve never been in that position westender. when i lived their i started to learn the language (off my own bat) couldnt take time to go to lessons as i was building a business, then what i discovered when i attempted to use what i learnt to my customers,they would always answer in broken english, the thing being i was told- they depend on tourism which in that particular place was mostly british so they needed the english more than i needed the spanish, so how is that insulting to them? i still have many spanish friends out there and they still answer me in english to this day.

West Ender · 07-03-2007, 23:19

I take your point, Cashman, it happens to me in Malta - I think they feel a bit sorry for me when I try to speak Maltese (!) but at least English is their official 2nd language. It's still, in my opinion, only polite to try to learn your host country's language. Unfortunately we English have a reputation, in Europe, for being a bit slow at picking up "foreign" tongues.

I only used the Costa Brittanica as an example, however. It's a different scenario to migrating to a country where you expect yourself and your descendants to remain in perpetuity. Speaking the "lingua franca" is part and parcel of integration.

garinda · 07-03-2007, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

Can I add to the argument something that I think is being overlooked. You're assuming that these women (or men) are actually coming here by choice. Forced marriage is a totally different situation from arranged marriage. In an arranged marriage the woman (or man) can always say no. In a forced marriage there is no option. If a woman is forced into a marriage they don't have any choice about whether they are brought over to the UK or not and they certainly don't have any option about learning the language.

In theory, I actually agree that to live in the UK there should be some effort made about speaking the language - I certainly would if I lived abroad. However, in practice this is not always possible.

Well then we should be fighting the religions and cultures present in our society that allows this to happen, and not pandering to, patronising and further alienating them by carrying on translating everything into languages other than English. Which in the long term will only prolong the problem not answer it.

Ianto.W. · 07-03-2007, 23:33

"Me no understand" are the first words taught to these people whatever sex they are, It slows the whole process down they know full well how to get access to whatever is available to them, publicising benefits in Urdu or Gugerati is a joke they cant even read their own languge. But you don't see any Pakistani beggars on our streets.

cashman · 08-03-2007, 00:10

I take your point, Cashman, it happens to me in Malta - I think they feel a bit sorry for me when I try to speak Maltese (!) but at least English is their official 2nd language. It's still, in my opinion, only polite to try to learn your host country's language. Unfortunately we English have a reputation, in Europe, for being a bit slow at picking up "foreign" tongues.
------ polite/ good manners is spot-on, i found that if you attempt to speak the language in Andalucia, no matter how badly, they love you to bits and have a friend for life.

unfortunatly if our immigrants did similar,the same would not occur? in many cases. and as for our reputation,many of the english expect people to be able to understand them,so i think the reputation is well founded.

Gayle · 08-03-2007, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Well then we should be fighting the religions and cultures present in our society that allows this to happen, and not pandering to, patronising and further alienating them by carrying on translating everything into languages other than English. Which in the long term will only prolong the problem not answer it.

If you see further on I have suggested that immigration control should put more emphasis on knowing English - which may in turn help to stamp out forced marriages.

WillowTheWhisp · 08-03-2007, 13:11

It would be an added bonus if it did wouldn't it Gayle?

Lampman · 08-03-2007, 16:02

Slightly off thread,but yes I feel uneasy about forced marriages,indeed I find the arranged marriage a bit hard to stomach.I know we are of different cultures,but when in Rome.......
I think the problem is that the whole ethnic marriage idea is an antiquated system that we abandoned over a hundred years ago.
Mind you the only emigrating/immigrating in those days available was a one way trip to Aussie land.