Asian women and the English language. - Page 6

spinner · 10-06-2007, 11:37

the translation sevices are relevant for older people who are not capable of learning the language but for younger women for example some families are only to happy that they are unable to spaek english because it limits their independance. thats why there must be pressure for everyone to learn to speak/read english. its a good idea to have a few interpretorsaround for people but if more people can be ecouraged to learn english than that wont be necessary.

Ianto.W. · 10-06-2007, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Is that merely 'in the presence of' or 'in the company of'? If it's the latter then yes it is indeed bad manners, but if it's the former then why on earth shouldn't they speak their own language amongst themselves? If I was in France with my English family I would speak to them in English not in French even though I would speak to French people in French.

The point I was trying to make willow, was that these people 'can' speak English when it suits them, but not when we are around. Gary if I lived or aspired to live in another country, I would ensure I could at least get 'by' with the local language. The bad 'manners' comes in when they revert back to mother tongue in our presence, in my opinion this is their way of sticking two fingers up at us, because we do not understand what they are saying. This is not conjusive to good relations, or integration.

garinda · 10-06-2007, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinner

i must admit im with ianto on this one. those leaflets when printed in urdu are completely wasteful as people who can read urdu generally speaking can read english as Pakistan was a former colony and english has been taught for many years.the majority of people who are unable to read basic english are illeterate and cant even read urdu. i think the printers just make a good living from it.

From today's Sunday Times.

Councils told to axe translation help for migrants -News-Politics-TimesOnline

Councils and Town Halls are to be forced by the government to stop translating every published piece of information in other languages, in order to encourage immigrants to learn English.

About bloody time too.

Hopefully soon we won't be seeing languages, other than English, on HBC's website.

garinda · 10-06-2007, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ianto.W.

Gary if I lived or aspired to live in another country, I would ensure I could at least get 'by' with the local language. The bad 'manners' comes in when they revert back to mother tongue in our presence, in my opinion this is their way of sticking two fingers up at us, because we do not understand what they are saying. This is not conjusive to good relations, or integration.

Two ex-pat Brits living in Spain, and meeting in a bar/shop/cafe etc., will not be speaking Spanish, even if they can, and even if it is infront of a Spaniard, and won't care a jot about whether the indigenous Spaniard thinks it's bad mannered, or not.

WillowTheWhisp · 10-06-2007, 14:14

When Busman and I were on holiday we spoke French to the French speaking people around us but we spoke English to each other not because we were intending to insult the people within earshot but because we are both English and it would have been downright daft to speak French to each other just in case someone overhearing us might want to evesdrop.

katex · 10-06-2007, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

When Busman and I were on holiday we spoke French to the French speaking people around us but we spoke English to each other not because we were intending to insult the people within earshot but because we are both English and it would have been downright daft to speak French to each other just in case someone overhearing us might want to evesdrop.

Course it would have been daft not to speak English between you .. agree .. how difficult would that be when you were map reading .. don't think their swear words are quite as flowery

French would be romantic in the evenings though

All about sticks and stones anyway, and if anyone were speaking about me in a derogatory way in their own language .. wouldn't know what they were saying and couldn't care two hoots.

Wynonie Harris · 10-06-2007, 15:22

About a year ago, Mrs H and one of her Peruvian buddies were walking along the street, yakking away in Spanish, when a chav walked past and said "yer in effing England, talk in effing English." Naturally, they told him where to go (in Anglo-Saxon!), but it seems strange to me that people should expect those whose first language is not English to talk in English at all times!

WillowTheWhisp · 10-06-2007, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

All about sticks and stones anyway, and if anyone were speaking about me in a derogatory way in their own language .. wouldn't know what they were saying and couldn't care two hoots.

Very well said Katex.

Actually I wouldn't flatter myself thinking that they might have even considered me listening to them let alone think me worthy of insulting.

WillowTheWhisp · 10-06-2007, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

About a year ago, Mrs H and one of her Peruvian buddies were walking along the street, yakking away in Spanish, when a chav walked past and said "yer in effing England, talk in effing English." Naturally, they told him where to go (in Anglo-Saxon!), but it seems strange to me that people should expect those whose first language is not English to talk in English at all times!

Heehee - they should have asked "Why don't you?"

Wynonie Harris · 10-06-2007, 15:39

Nice one, Willow.

I'll tell her to say that if it happens again!

SPUGGIE J · 10-06-2007, 18:32

If the chav attitude was previlent we would never have tourists in this country spending money. Would the chav speak the local lingo if he ever manages to get abroad? I doubt it somehow.

Ianto.W. · 11-06-2007, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Two ex-pat Brits living in Spain, and meeting in a bar/shop/cafe etc., will not be speaking Spanish, even if they can, and even if it is infront of a Spaniard, and won't care a jot about whether the indigenous Spaniard thinks it's bad mannered, or not.

You are twisting my words again, If you were born here, brought up here, why speak the language of another country, this is the group I am talking about. When I did my bit in the middle east I could get by with Arab lingo as I can in Spain or any other country, any fool can if they visit the country often enough.

WillowTheWhisp · 11-06-2007, 11:39

Maybe they just find it nice to speak their own native tongue to each other though. Hasn't that possibility occurred to you? They probably don't give a tuppeny fig about you or whether you can understand them or not because what they are saying to each other is basically none of your business. When I was in Ireland I used to love coming across a fluent Gaeilge speaker. The idea of speaking in Irish to annoy or insult the non speakers never crossed my mind. In fact some of the people born in Ireland couldn't speak the language all that well as they'd grown up speaking English as a first language but if I start off on that topic it's a whole new volatile tangent with the English language having been forced on the people in the past.

Ianto.W. · 11-06-2007, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Maybe they just find it nice to speak their own native tongue to each other though. Hasn't that possibility occurred to you? They probably don't give a tuppeny fig about you or whether you can understand them or not because what they are saying to each other is basically none of your business. When I was in Ireland I used to love coming across a fluent Gaeilge speaker. The idea of speaking in Irish to annoy or insult the non speakers never crossed my mind. In fact some of the people born in Ireland couldn't speak the language all that well as they'd grown up speaking English as a first language but if I start off on that topic it's a whole new volatile tangent with the English language having been forced on the people in the past.

The are supposed to be British, it's the youngsters i'm talking about 'teenagers' who then laugh when they look in your direction, after some remark made by one of them appears to be funny to them. What I do is supprise them by making a remark back in their lingo, they don't like that.

Margaret Pilkington · 11-06-2007, 13:04

Many years ago, as a student nurse, I worked on one of the ante-natal wards.
The sister on the ward had spent many years in the Asian sub-continent doing voluntary work with the poor......so she spoke a number of asian languages.
One day a couple of asian men visited the ward and made some very derogatory comments about her in their own language. She overheard this and was off like a shot to challenge the men...IN THEIR LANGUAGE.......you should have seen their faces. They were so shocked that a middle aged white woman could speak and understand their mother tongue. This was in 1976.