Assault

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by gigglingbadman

Did the threats stop?

Yes - but it took me a long time to get over the trauma. Thanks for your concern
PS Just noticed you are banned

[blazey]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Threats of violence can cause almost as much distress as actual violence.
Five years ago I presented documentary evidence of threats against me to the police and hurredly left the country for 3 weeks.
On my return I was dismayed that they had done nothing about it, and the threats continued, so lived fearfully for a further 3 months until the police issued them with a warning, and they only did that after I told them I was going to 'arm myself'

Threats of violence does actually class as an assault you know. You should've took things further than that, maybe sued the police for failing to act.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I don't think the police have enough manpower to protect everyone who is threatened. Personally I think in my daughter's case it boils down to a lack of discipline in schools but the teachers hands are tied a lot of the time aren't they? Even excluded pupils are getting sent back to the schools now so in effect they 'win'.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I don't think the police have enough manpower to protect everyone who is threatened. Personally I think in my daughter's case it boils down to a lack of discipline in schools but the teachers hands are tied a lot of the time aren't they? Even excluded pupils are getting sent back to the schools now so in effect they 'win'.

I would've thought sending pupils back to school than a juvenile prison is a better option anyway.

Recurring threats are dealt with as assaults and it should be in a persons interest to have that threat stopped. Perhaps the problem is that people expect the police to do too much without actually doing something for themselves.

[WillowTheWhisp]

But what punishment is available to disruptive pupils who make it nigh on impossible for others in the class to learn? They don't benefit from being at school and everyone else suffers. Exclusion (expelling) is a last resort after all else has failed but even then the pupils are being sent back so they just stick two fingers up at the teachers and carry on being a total pain in the posterior until they reach 16 and no longer have to attend. Meanwhile other pupils suffer because the classes cannot be taught properly when they have disruptive pupils in them.

I don't just mean a bit of paper flicking or chattering amongst themselves. I'm referring to violence against other pupils and teachers. Real physical violence which is driving people out of the teaching profession.

What's the answer? How can these pupils be dealt with?

[blazey]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

But what punishment is available to disruptive pupils who make it nigh on impossible for others in the class to learn? They don't benefit from being at school and everyone else suffers. Exclusion (expelling) is a last resort after all else has failed but even then the pupils are being sent back so they just stick two fingers up at the teachers and carry on being a total pain in the posterior until they reach 16 and no longer have to attend. Meanwhile other pupils suffer because the classes cannot be taught properly when they have disruptive pupils in them.

I don't just mean a bit of paper flicking or chattering amongst themselves. I'm referring to violence against other pupils and teachers. Real physical violence which is driving people out of the teaching profession.

What's the answer? How can these pupils be dealt with?

Normally theres more to pupils misbehaving in class than just being a bad egg. It normally derives from something the teacher has actually said or done towards the pupil.

I had a really disruptive lad in my history class, but it would've been unfair to shove him out of the class as he was also a really intelligent lad who just needed to be kept interested. If the teachers had labelled him as badly behaved and treated him like a delinquent he wouldn't have managed to complete the year as he'd have started to believe the bad things they say.

I've never met anyone in a class who honestly says they cant work because of someone else being disruptive, theyre most likely to just be making excuses to avoid another reason being brought up. I haven't met anyone who has honestly been deprived a top grade due to someone being disruptive.

I'm one of the quiet ones as well at college who would rather not say anything to someone being noisy and just get on with it. I have never suffered because of anyone else, it would be a pathetic excuse if i did claim that.

[Rosebud]

You have also got to consider the 'vicious circle' of exclusion- the majority of excluded pupils become invovled in offending when out of school- how can this be a sollution. Better to address the problem on site but because that is the harder option lets just send them home and let it be someone elses problem.

[WillowTheWhisp]

So how do you address it on site? There are some schools where the teachers are physically attacked by these 'disruptive' pupils who have absolutely no intention of learning. I don't mean people like the lad you mentioned Blazey who must have had some interest or he would never have learned anything. You are fortunate not to have had the sort of class disruption where nothing gets taught because of the behaviour of the odd one or two.

What do you do? What is the solution? The teacher cannot spend time one to one with the one problem and neglect the other 20 odd children in the class.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

So how do you address it on site? There are some schools where the teachers are physically attacked by these 'disruptive' pupils who have absolutely no intention of learning. I don't mean people like the lad you mentioned Blazey who must have had some interest or he would never have learned anything. You are fortunate not to have had the sort of class disruption where nothing gets taught because of the behaviour of the odd one or two.

What do you do? What is the solution? The teacher cannot spend time one to one with the one problem and neglect the other 20 odd children in the class.

With great great difficulty especially wwhen things have reached the extent you rightly point out that they can. There is a need to completely overhaul the mindset of how conflict is resolved in a school setting. This is not a quick fix however and takes months to achieve. It is however ultimateky achievable as long as the school and all of its staff both teaching and non teaching are motivated to change.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

So how do you address it on site? There are some schools where the teachers are physically attacked by these 'disruptive' pupils who have absolutely no intention of learning. I don't mean people like the lad you mentioned Blazey who must have had some interest or he would never have learned anything. You are fortunate not to have had the sort of class disruption where nothing gets taught because of the behaviour of the odd one or two.

What do you do? What is the solution? The teacher cannot spend time one to one with the one problem and neglect the other 20 odd children in the class.

People where excluded from the school I went to, particularly at primary school. Funnily enough the teachers were more of a problem there. One got done for assaulting a student, she actually grabbed him by the throat, another male one got done for sexually molesting several of the students.
The situations in schools aren't all one sided. Badly behaved students usually act that way because the teacher has at some point made them feel either incapable or has humiliated them in some way, then the student retaliates by acting abusive towards the teacher to humilate them instead.

You could say their deviant behaviour is a way of them claiming back some dignity. Usually the students aren't bothered by it if they're hard working students, if anything it teaches them how to stay focused in difficult situations.

The only problem I do think is serious in schools is bullying, and often it isn't tackled properly, but that generally isn't because a child is just born bad either, its often an attention/power thing due to some underlying problems at home.

Maybe I just have a very observant nature due to being in these different experiences and I have a very analytical mind which often I cant control. I have to think deeply into possibilities about everything, and then of course with having studied psychology and sociology it always has me looking at angles as to why people do things, not just because they are bad.
I also was bullied by a girl who was just slow in class and had little support. I resolved the bullying by offering to go to her house and help her with her spelling, we wouldve been between 8 and 11 during the worst bits. We're still friends today. Most of the time it just takes a little sympathy and some understanding to help someone understand themselves that they do not need to behave in such a way. Labelling them criminals doesn't help matters, thats when they start to believe thats all they are.

[cashman]

think the main problem in schools stems from the lack of respect/discipline call it what you may, from some pupils, which again stems from underlying problems as blazey said at some homes, of coarse theres some teachers that dont come up to the mark,you witness this lack of respect frequently on public transport,or in the street, they may be in the minority,cos most kids are ok, but theres also too much pressure nowadays and that can contribute to all kids good n bad. its very easy to say this, but very hard to solve.

[WillowTheWhisp]

When I was at school (a few centuries ago) we did have bullies and we did have disruptive pupils and they were able to be dealt with on site because there was always the threat of 'the big stick'. It didn't have to be used. In fact I very rarely saw someone getting a paddle with a table tennis bat but Mr. Brown kept one for the very purpose and he only had to get it out of the drawer and put it on his desk for it to have the desired effect.

Nowadays that would be classed as child abuse. Nowadays the pupils have the upper hand and they know it.

How do you even get the attention of a class when half of them have their feet on the desks, are playing with their mobile phones or discussing their latest boyfriend/girlfriend?

As a child at one time I wanted to be a teacher. I wouldn't do it now if they paid me twice the going rate. I see it from the sharp end and see decent good hardworking people being driven to the brink of nervous breakdowns because children can no longer be disciplined. Tell them off and they go running to their parents who then turn up at the school threatening the teachers.

Yes the underlying cause may well be the lousy homes they come from but teachers don't even have enough hours in the day to get through all the paperwork and teaching (there is far more 'bumph' to being a teacher than most people even dream of) they don't have time nor skills to be amateur psychologists too so I don't think the solution is to send the child back to the same situation.

Perhaps we need more specialist teaching environments to deal with those pupils on a one to one basis.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

When I was at school (a few centuries ago) we did have bullies and we did have disruptive pupils and they were able to be dealt with on site because there was always the threat of 'the big stick'. It didn't have to be used. In fact I very rarely saw someone getting a paddle with a table tennis bat but Mr. Brown kept one for the very purpose and he only had to get it out of the drawer and put it on his desk for it to have the desired effect.

Nowadays that would be classed as child abuse. Nowadays the pupils have the upper hand and they know it.

How do you even get the attention of a class when half of them have their feet on the desks, are playing with their mobile phones or discussing their latest boyfriend/girlfriend?

As a child at one time I wanted to be a teacher. I wouldn't do it now if they paid me twice the going rate. I see it from the sharp end and see decent good hardworking people being driven to the brink of nervous breakdowns because children can no longer be disciplined. Tell them off and they go running to their parents who then turn up at the school threatening the teachers.

Yes the underlying cause may well be the lousy homes they come from but teachers don't even have enough hours in the day to get through all the paperwork and teaching (there is far more 'bumph' to being a teacher than most people even dream of) they don't have time nor skills to be amateur psychologists too so I don't think the solution is to send the child back to the same situation.

Perhaps we need more specialist teaching environments to deal with those pupils on a one to one basis.

I didn't realise children put their feet up in the lessons. This must be a relatively new thing as obviously I only left high school two years ago. I know that kind of behaviour doesn't go on in my younger sisters primary school either, whom is nearly 9, or she would say.

Perhaps you just happened to come across a class full of delinquents that day or someone you know teaches a particularly bad group of children. I had the 'class clowns' in my schools dont get me wrong, but there was nobody on the scale your saying. Then again in both schools there were one to one support available for children like that, thats not something new, thats just something clearly all schools dont have.