Attack on soldier in woolwich

[cashman]

Its also not beyond the impossible, that his mate who is probably of the same beliefs, would say that. two sides too everything.

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by cashman

Its also not beyond the impossible, that his mate who is probably of the same beliefs, would say that. two sides too everything.

I agree - there are always two sides to every event - we may never know which is correct - especially when one version is the only one given any 'credibility'.

[GEaston]

Margaret - I think it's easy to dismiss as nonesense on the balance of evidence. I submit the 300,000 men woman and children washed off the surface of the earth a few years back by the Aceh tsunami as all the evidence I need to submit for a solid conviction.

The only comeback I've ever heard on that was "they've gone to a better place".....

I prefer the saying that "on the 8th day god created a talking white tiger and forgot all about us"

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by GEaston

Margaret - I think it's easy to dismiss as nonesense on the balance of evidence. I submit the 300,000 men woman and children washed off the surface of the earth a few years back by the Aceh tsunami as all the evidence I need to submit for a solid conviction.

The only comeback I've ever heard on that was "they've gone to a better place".....

I prefer the saying that "on the 8th day god created a talking white tiger and forgot all about us"

I have the advantage of not being a 'god botherer' and, having detached myself from the rat race of everyday life, I take a detached view uninhibited by the emotion surrounding the event.

I just observe and comment when I think that a different view needs airing.

I do find your post rather as a red herring - this was no natural disaster - it was contrived by man or men.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

I agree - there are always two sides to every event - we may never know which is correct - especially when one version is the only one given any 'credibility'.

Can't really say that? much to come out yet perhaps? investigation must be in its infancy at this point, whilst the media n governments may tell us stuff,many have minds of our own n weigh up fer themselves. no need fer media or anyone else to attempt, it don't work that good wi me.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

Roger that too MrC

and me too

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

I have the advantage of not being a 'god botherer' and, having detached myself from the rat race of everyday life, I take a detached view uninhibited by the emotion surrounding the event.

I just observe and comment when I think that a different view needs airing.

I do find your post rather as a red herring - this was no natural disaster - it was contrived by man or men.

If as you say you've detached yourself from the rat race how the hell can you make a valid comment its obvious you watch the rat race from your rose coloured specs, when you want to of course

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

Can't really say that? much to come out yet perhaps? investigation must be in its infancy at this point, whilst the media n governments may tell us stuff,many have minds of our own n weigh up fer themselves. no need fer media or anyone else to attempt, it don't work that good wi me.

Your certainly right about the media, they are still peddling it for all its worth, I think its the Star that have printed the photos again this morning, the one with the guy holding the knife before he's shot, why oh why do they need to do this, its just playing into the hands of this scum, but lets face it the first rule of journalism is why let the truth get in the way of a good story, things like this prove it

[Eric]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

There's a book by Hannah Arendht called The Banality of Evil the theme being the strange relationship between idiocy and evil..

That would be Hannah Arendt, "Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil." I don't really agree with your "theme", but what the heck. Problem with her thesis is that allows for the "I was only following orders" excuse. Other theses suggest that even ordinary people can be evil when they fall for an evil ideology ... you know, Nazism, racism, Stalinism, and certain interpretations of Islam, which, if they are "minority", they are a sizeable one, strong in Pakistan (a failed state if ever there was one) in particular. Daniel Goldhagen's "Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust" is a fascinating read, and it suggests other ways of looking at the realtionship between militant Islam and "ordinary" muslims.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by Eric

That would be Hannah Arendt, "Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil." I don't really agree with your "theme", but what the heck. Problem with her thesis is that allows for the "I was only following orders" excuse. Other theses suggest that even ordinary people can be evil when they fall for an evil ideology ... you know, Nazism, racism, Stalinism, and certain interpretations of Islam, which, if they are "minority", they are a sizeable one, strong in Pakistan (a failed state if ever there was one) in particular. Daniel Goldhagen's "Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust" is a fascinating read, and it suggests other ways of looking at the realtionship between militant Islam and "ordinary" muslims.

Fair enough Eric the book was written 50 years ago but it does link the strange relationship between idiocy and evil, those cases I cited demonstrating just that, to me anyway.
The Israelis set Eichmann up in a show trial hoping to show him as a monster and despite all the efforts of the prosecution everybody could see the man was not a monster as Arendt says " It was difficult not to suspect he was a clown" He came across as a near robotic creation of Nazi bureaucracy speaking in jargon..
Anders Brevik some argued should not be given a platform and the publicity he craved in order to propagate his ethnic purity fantasies. Some thought a dark creed would emerge which if allowed into the public arena would inspire others.
Quite the reverse he came across as a complete fantasist. During his trial he stood exposed as a pitiful and deluded character whose political opinions weren't worth spit. In short he was a murder who longed to be categorised as a terrorist.

That was my theme Eric writ badly maybe, this is what these two Woolwich murderers are. The mad mullahs seekout these simpletons.
I don't know whether these two can explain what they meant in their video rants. I'd like them to try to explain. It would expose the hollowness of their actions so that an act of senselesss murder can be called just what it is plain and simple.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

Fair enough Eric the book was written 50 years ago but it does link the strange relationship between idiocy and evil, those cases I cited demonstrating just that, to me anyway.
The Israelis set Eichmann up in a show trial hoping to show him as a monster and despite all the efforts of the prosecution everybody could see the man was not a monster as Arendt says " It was difficult not to suspect he was a clown" He came across as a near robotic creation of Nazi bureaucracy speaking in jargon..
Anders Brevik some argued should not be given a platform and the publicity he craved in order to propagate his ethnic purity fantasies. Some thought a dark creed would emerge which if allowed into the public arena would inspire others.
Quite the reverse he came across as a complete fantasist. During his trial he stood exposed as a pitiful and deluded character whose political opinions weren't worth spit. In short he was a murder who longed to be categorised as a terrorist.

That was my theme Eric writ badly maybe, this is what these two Woolwich murderers are. The mad mullahs seekout these simpletons.
I don't know whether these two can explain what they meant in their video rants. I'd like them to try to explain. It would expose the hollowness of their actions so that an act of senselesss murder can be called just what it is plain and simple.

It is a fascinating subject though. When I think of "the banality of evil", I think of how difficult it is to accept that ordinary, boring, "normal" folks can do evil things ... and I don't believe that anyone can come to terms with the Holocaust without accepting that, from time to time, there is evil in the world.

I think it's wrong to think of evil as something that can only be associated with monsters and extremists. The real threat from Islam comes not with the suicide bombers and the nutbar mullahs, but with the religion itself. The threat is from the muslim communities that are growing in size and number in all the western democracies. They are fifth columns because they don't ... or won't ... grasp a fundamental democratic concept: the separation of church and state. While the West foucuses on the Taliban, al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and a host of others, they are neglecting to protect their own fundamental institutions and beliefs from a threat they are nurturing within their own countries.

Whatever ... but it is nice that I can make these comments without the fear of being arrested for insulting the prophet and blasphemy, both of which, I believe, carry the death penalty in certain parts of the muslim world.

[accyman]

just read that a french soldier ha sbeen stabbed in the neck in france

The 23-year-old French soldier was in a busy underground train station in the west of the city when he was stabbed in the throat by a man believed to be of North African origin at around 6pm on Saturday.

Christophe Crepin, spokesman for the police union UNSA, said: "You don't have to be a great observer to be able to see the similarity.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by accyman

just read that a french soldier ha sbeen stabbed in the neck in france

It appears the thing now for soldiers is be very vigilant at all times

[accyman]

remember how muslims protest at our troops coming home and spitting at them.Well another thing they do is take pictures of our returning soldiers shouting that they will come find them and kill them.I cant help but wonder if attacking soldiers in their own country is a variation of this threat.Its a lot easier to kill and make an example of a soldier when he is unaware or alone in his own country than out on the battlefield.

maybe now government wont tollerate this abhorant behaviour towards our returning troops because quite clearly they are tagets even at home and threats and intimidation should not be tolerated just because it may offend a few people if they are made to pay for their what i would describe as treason to our country

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by accyman

remember how muslims protest at our troops coming home and spitting at them.Well another thing they do is take pictures of our returning soldiers shouting that they will come find them and kill them.I cant help but wonder if attacking soldiers in their own country is a variation of this threat.Its a lot easier to kill and make an example of a soldier when he is unaware or alone in his own country than out on the battlefield.

maybe now government wont tolerate this aberrant behaviour towards our returning troops because quite clearly they are targets even at home and threats and intimidation should not be tolerated just because it may offend a few people if they are made to pay for their what i would describe as treason to our country

I remember this happening, in I think Luton a few years ago, with the police sat there on their hands doing precisely nothing, no doubt scared of the race card, but this goes deep than race, Islam ain't a race to start with, If a bunch of blokes shoot outside a Mosque and started spiting on people leaving their feet wouldn't touch. Another thing that really irks me is that people such as Anjem Choudary (who is banned from Germany)but is welcomed on every TV Channel in Britain and hasn't been arrested nor have any other Preachers of Hate, how long did Captain Hook roam the streets before being jailed, there's a difference between tolerance and cow towing to this scum, its time Cameron grew a set of balls and put these peddlers of hate where they should be either back where they came from, together with their broods or if they were born here locked up where they can do no harm, obviously just telling these nut jobs we're watching you ain't working