Back Stabbing The Armed Forces.

jambutty · 10-01-2007, 12:52

It was recently reported that the MOD has spent over TWO BILLION POUNDS for new MOD offices. To add insult to injury the procurement office has approved the spend, as cost effective.

Of course in the meantime flesh and blood in the shape of our armed forces have to fight without adequate equipment. Helicopters are being cannibalised for parts to keep others in the air. Troops are going out on highly dangerous patrols in Land Rovers because there are not enough armoured cars. Guns that jam. Ammunition that is defective. Indeed it has been reported that our brave soldiers have had to BORROW ammunition from the Americans. A number of our troops have been killed because there was insufficient body armour for every man/woman. Even food and water has been in short supply.

Back home the troops barracks and married quarters are not much more than hovels.

To cap it all the MOD is considering mothballing half the fleet in a cost cutting exercise. I understand that the naval dockyard is under threat too. But the MOD officials and senior ranks have to have plush new offices where they can sit and plan who to send to their death next.

It is no wonder that more people are leaving the armed forces than are joining.

SPUGGIE J · 10-01-2007, 13:01

Typical! Some desk jocky aint happy with his lot so goes crying to the govenment who in a warped wisdom deside he is a very important person. Sorry but he should have to work in a potacabin as the money is needed by frontline troops who are getting shot at running the gauntlet of bombs etc and the worst the Deskjoc is a heavy worded memo. The priorities are so fkd up its beyond belief. Its time the troops, Airforce and the Navy got the credit and equipment to keep up the men and women as the best in the world.

garinda · 10-01-2007, 13:44

The new chairs for each of the thousands of civil servants at the MOD, to sit on the arses, cost over £1,300. Which is more than the cost of a bullet proof vest, which are still not standard kit in Iraq.

Ridiculous.

jedimaster · 10-01-2007, 15:33

all i can say is god help us if there is ever an invasion

it'll be back to pitchforks and broom handles for us!!!!

Ianto.W. · 11-01-2007, 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedimaster

all i can say is god help us if there is ever an invasion

it'll be back to pitchforks and broom handles for us!!!!

My Brother in Law informed me from Afganistan, that they would be glad of owt like that.

WillowTheWhisp · 11-01-2007, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

The new chairs for each of the thousands of civil servants at the MOD, to sit on the arses, cost over £1,300. Which is more than the cost of a bullet proof vest, which are still not standard kit in Iraq.

Ridiculous.

The front line troops should come first. The very least they should expect is proper equipment and not to have to make do and mend whilst the MOD sits in the lap of luxury.

Never mind, they might have new barracks to come back home to with some nice new fluffy rugs. Personally I'd rather have the bullet proof vest and a gun that actually works.

bullseyebarb · 17-01-2007, 20:52

[quote=jambutty;364769]
Of course in the meantime flesh and blood in the shape of our armed forces have to fight without adequate equipment. Helicopters are being cannibalised for parts to keep others in the air. Troops are going out on highly dangerous patrols in Land Rovers because there are not enough armoured cars. Guns that jam. Ammunition that is defective. Indeed it has been reported that our brave soldiers have had to BORROW ammunition from the Americans. A number of our troops have been killed because there was insufficient body armour for every man/woman. Even food and water has been in short supply.quote]

Most recently, four British Royal Marines were strapped to the underside of an Apache attack helicopter when embarking upon a rescue mission. VERY dangerous.....and highlighting the shortage of light tactical helicopters. Indeed, much equipment is being "borrowed" from U.S. forces.

I've been wondering.....is this a prelude to subsuming the great British military into a larger EU force? If that happens, you guys won't have the flexibility to choose what is necessary to defend and what isn't.

Billcat · 17-01-2007, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Most recently, four British Royal Marines were strapped to the underside of an Apache attack helicopter when embarking upon a rescue mission. VERY dangerous.....and highlighting the shortage of light tactical helicopters.

I read that story, Bulleyebarb, and I believe that you miseed the bullseye this time! In fact, I've now read several account and not one of them indicates that these soldiers felt that they were undersupplied.

There were three Apache helicopters. The real problem here is that the Apache is only a two-seater, one of which is occupied by the pilot. As more soldiers needed to go along, the Apache was not an appropriate choice for the rescue mission. But, when time is of the essence, as in this rescue mission, good soldiers improvise with what they have at hand. Virtually no army ever has every conceivable weapon instantly available. Frankly, give the stubby wings, I don't think that strapping more than two soldiers to the AH-64 helicopter would be practical/

Here's the link: http://news.bostonherald.com/interna...ticleid=177642

bullseyebarb · 17-01-2007, 22:15

Perhaps. However, according to U.K. military spokesman Lt.Col. Rory Bruce, it is believed to be the first time British forces ever tried this type of rescue mission. They were incredibly brave, considering that the mobility of this type of helicopter would have been heavily restricted and extremely vulnerable throughout the operation. Any loss would have been a propaganda coup for the enemy. I have been following closely all stories of shortages and substandard equipment. Land vehicles have been a topic of much discussion also. Obviously, this is not an isolated incident.

Billcat · 17-01-2007, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Perhaps. However, according to U.K. military spokesman Lt.Col. Rory Bruce, it is believed to be the first time British forces ever tried this type of rescue mission. They were incredibly brave....

That statement I certainly agree with. It also was a fine display of the sort of military improvisation that can often make a huge difference between success and death.

Ianto.W. · 18-01-2007, 13:49

Quote:

bullseyebarb, I have been following closely all stories of shortages and substandard equipment. Land vehicles have been a topic of much discussion also. Obviously, this is not an isolated incident.

This is not the first conflict where the equiptment was not up to the job, as we are all aware sand and dust is the enemy of any motor vehicles, helicopters etc. To bring to mind a certain USA ill fated rescue attemt of hostages, suffered the same fate because the helicopters were not equipped to deal with the conditions. Also shortages are not just in equiptment, but skilled engineers to repair what the army already have, shortages come in many disguises.

shakermaker · 18-01-2007, 14:17

Just bring them all home.
Sending these lads out there is just sending them out to die for no cause.

Saddam has been caught. It's just a civil war out there now. Why are British and American soldiers even there??

Billcat · 18-01-2007, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

Just bring them all home.
Sending these lads out there is just sending them out to die for no cause.

Saddam has been caught. It's just a civil war out there now. Why are British and American soldiers even there??

Apparently, some of our leaders didn't learn much from the experience in Vietnam - or from how Eastern Europe moved to democracy.

Our kids will be paying for this folly for many decades to come.

Ianto.W. · 19-01-2007, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

Just bring them all home.
Sending these lads out there is just sending them out to die for no cause.

Saddam has been caught. It's just a civil war out there now. Why are British and American soldiers even there??

Oil shakermaker if they had no oil, we would be trying to sell them cement they have enough sand of their own, and maybe de-salination plants, on second thoughts we would probably be giving them aid, as without oil they would have no money to buy owt.

bullseyebarb · 20-01-2007, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

Apparently, some of our leaders didn't learn much from the experience in Vietnam - or from how Eastern Europe moved to democracy.

Our kids will be paying for this folly for many decades to come.

No, they didn't. Viet Nam was not lost on the ground but in Washington. And many of the same rancid politicians are still up there and ready to repeat the '70's. Millions of people were slaughtered in Southeast Asia as a result of what they did then. Only difference is that the North Vietnamese had no interest in attacking America.

You are right......our kids will be paying for this - if we repeat the same mistakes we made back then.