Banning smacking in public places

[Margaret Pilkington]

Child abuse takes many forms and needs no physical contact to enforce it......shouting at a child a couple of inches from it's face.....child abuse?.....effing and jeffing(for want of a better word) at a child.....child abuse?.....calling a child 'stupid'...ignorant etc......child abuse?
None of these forms of abuse will leave any mark that the eye can see....but be under no illusions, when used on a regular basis they will damage the psyche of a child more than a mild slap ever could.

[accymel]

OOerr a debate hehehehehehe

I thought smacking in public was banned anway, but i think the crux of the debate is more about the definition because there are different ideas on what constitutes as smacking.

To my opinion a tap is use of the flat fingers only & the palm of the hand DOES not connect with the person chastised, if palm should touch area is a full hand so therfore a smack, try it on yourself you'll see he difference the finger tap does not hurt, mark or anything but enough because the power behind it is so much weaker than sweeping motion of full hand. A tap to me is last resort if it goes beyond that then it means 'i the grown up has lost control of the situation'. Any chastisement should ALWAYS come with an explanation reason for doing so & it should fit the crime done, so that :

a] the child does not understand what its done wrong
b] how to do that situation better next time to make it right not wrong
c] gives child chance to explain their actions, reasons & stop confusion & the consequences of their actions [my kids hate that regular word hehehe]
d] dont ever shout at the child so the child feels they are wrong/unworthy/bad/unloved etc, BUT make the behaviour desicion itself the wrong issue, you love them very much but dont love/like their behaviour - its to be a seperate issue, otherwise the child will just beleive they are just bad & exhibit bad behaviour in order to gain attention to make themselves feel better because they are living up to their 'label' of bad child.
e] encourage the good in the child, praise, praise, praise, certainly if child has learnt their lesson & did it right next time, it will encourage the positive use of discipline without need of drastic resource, also if discipline is negative - your kids wont thank you for it later & bitter resentment will brew.
f] violence in a household is never a good thing - violence breeds violence & fear.
g] not all children are the same, in development, mentality, progress, emotionally, react & think differently etc so to be adaptable in approach of discipline.
h] Be firm BUT be fair

The ^^ above is my discipline guide - without smack or tap, you could say its my discipline lecture or nagbag as my kids call it & tbh has worked better than smacking. Smacking doesn't really solve anything & gets used to it, take from one that knows - you can get tough from a smack to the point it doesnt have the desired effect in the long term but to only have them unlease it in undesirable actions either way, giving it or being on receiving end later on or have inpounded psychological long lasting effect.

There are other ways to discipline but unfortunately it requires time, patience & effort, some parents dont have it. As this thread has proven that ideas on discipline vary & you dont get a child rearing perfect handbook, we all live & we learn as to deal with things, what works for me maynot to another & vice versa, adults are no different than kids really

[mrskitty]

Originally Posted by panther

.... i was given a slap when i was younger if I was out of line, i have turned out alright,

No comment Panther

In all seriousness i hate that statement.Whats 'normal' then?and how do you know that you wouldn't have turned out more 'normal' or 'better' if you hadn't been smacked?
Obviously alot of people know smacking is wrong and it causes long term effects as there are no tests run that involve people smacking and people not smacking their children to prove any point (IYKWIM).

[Margaret Pilkington]

Parents want the best for their children (usually).......and most parents know what works best for them...most times having used many methods to achieve the right response....and sometimes a smack is the last resort...when everything else has been tried.
My daughter leaves both of her children in my care. She knows that I will enforce discipline in the way that I did when she was a child......which MAY be a smack if the need arises......she has no problems with that because she knows that I do not vent my anger/frustration/tiredness etc. on the children.
And I know that reasoning with a 3 year old having a tantrum is almost impossible.

[Flash]

i don't believe in smacking children in public or other wise. I have three kids the youngest of which is two years old. He would on occasion try the patience of a saint, but i would never dream of smacking him.Whenever me and my husband have an argument we don't give each other a clout, that would be classed as domestic violence, that should be no different when dealing with children.

[flashy]

i believe in giving kids a crack when they need it, i know there is a fine line between smacking and child abuse but as panther said we turned out ok from having a smack, i think all this namby pamby dont smack children crap has lead the world to what it is now...yobs hanging round giving people abuse on street corners because they know they wont be punished for it....another loada testicles if you ask me

[Flash]

If Your Husband/partner Gave You A Crack After A Disagreement Would You Accept It And Think I Desrved That I Won't Do That Again. Violence Breeds Violence! ! !

[flashy]

yeah i would accept it cos i'd slap him back

[Flash]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Child abuse takes many forms and needs no physical contact to enforce it......shouting at a child a couple of inches from it's face.....child abuse?.....effing and jeffing(for want of a better word) at a child.....child abuse?.....calling a child 'stupid'...ignorant etc......child abuse?
None of these forms of abuse will leave any mark that the eye can see....but be under no illusions, when used on a regular basis they will damage the psyche of a child more than a mild slap ever could.

WELL SAID THAT WOMAN, I COULDN'T HAVE PUT IT BETTER MYSELF.

[panther]

Originally Posted by Flash

Violence Breeds Violence! ! !

define violence....
Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing.
i do neither of those to my kids!!

do people seem to forget that years ago kids used to get the cane at school!!
they dont do that now.....and look at the state of it, kids going to school smoking, telling teachers to f off, and even lashing out at them, they have no respect, all because the govement say dont do this, do that, you cant do this
well this is a message to them...

kids get a way with many things, even if one came towards you and assulted you, you cant do anything or you would end up in court!!
people hiding indoors because they are afraid to come out because of kids being hooligans!
sorry but if any kid did that to me id fight back!

in the end its RESPECT!! and people dont have it these days

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by panther

in the end its RESPECT!! and people dont have it these days

Does smacking children teach them morals then ?

[panther]

depends what type of smacking, i just give a tap on the legs, but cant do it to me daughter shes to big, i do not thump, thats a NO NO.

if you beat them up then no you are not gonna get any!
and my kids are not scared of me, cuz they do give the odd chat back, but which kid doesnt.

[Ianto.W.]

This is my observation of disciplining children, having brought up 2 families, and watching my offsprings bring theirs up, If you say to a child 'If you do not behave certain privileges will be withdrawn', and do not follow it through you have lost. Time and again I see my daughter's tell this to their kids, then lo and behold off out to play they go, if I say anything I am told my generation is out off the loop, so now I have badly behaved grandchildren. As for my opinion on school discipline, I well remember sadistic teachers who took great pleasure in using corporal punishment, so that is not the answer. Mean what you say when you discipline a child and smacking will be unneccessary.

[accymel]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

My daughter leaves both of her children in my care. She knows that I will enforce discipline in the way that I did when she was a child......which MAY be a smack if the need arises......she has no problems with that because she knows that I do not vent my anger/frustration/tiredness etc. on the children.
And I know that reasoning with a 3 year old having a tantrum is almost impossible.

I could not enforce discipline of that nature to any child certainly not to those that arn't my own - even with permission, i have no such right to do so no matter how i feel or whatever, its just a no no, thats the childs parents rightful job to do so, i just cant do it whereas my own is my responsiblility & rules applied. There are times where i need a backup to enforce discipline - hey im outnumbered & kids dont have f/t male role model - so therefore have called upon my dad & my bro for help with disciplinary matters certainly with the eldest, they have not smacked my children & have respected my way as a parent, also re-inforcing alternative methods even when child has gone out of hand - its tother way in here sometimes, & soon calms down whereas alternatively it could make the situ worse, as a responsible adult the main thing with discipline is maintaining the moral high ground.

Gee perfect im far from but do my utmost as a parent to do whats right by my children & people around us as best i can.

[Flash]

Originally Posted by panther

define violence....
Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing.
i do neither of those to my kids!!

do people seem to forget that years ago kids used to get the cane at school!!
they dont do that now.....and look at the state of it, kids going to school smoking, telling teachers to f off, and even lashing out at them, they have no respect, all because the govement say dont do this, do that, you cant do this
well this is a message to them...

kids get a way with many things, even if one came towards you and assulted you, you cant do anything or you would end up in court!!
people hiding indoors because they are afraid to come out because of kids being hooligans!
sorry but if any kid did that to me id fight back!

in the end its RESPECT!! and people dont have it these days

you can't teach your kids respect by smacking them. The only thing it teaches them is that is that if you hit someone you can get what you want.That isn't respect.