Battle of Orgreave

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

You have such a picturesque way with words!
Let's put aside the emotion and remember a few facts.

Very politely put Gordon - of course the people who are continually stepping on crap find that it is usually their own overflow as they are so full of it.

A couple of points that I must look up:
1. How many died at during the miner's strike as a result of Thatcher's actions?
2. How many died in Iraq through Blair taking us into an illegal war?

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Very politely put Gordon - of course the people who are continually stepping on crap find that it is usually their own overflow as they are so full of it.

A couple of points that I must look up:
1. How many died at during the miner's strike as a result of Thatcher's actions?
2. How many died in Iraq through Blair taking us into an illegal war?

Pathetic comparison, everyone who has been on here awhile, know damn well i have slagged Blair oer that n even gave up voting labour cos of him, so its you thats talking crap, used to think yeh were reasonably bright, sorry for the mistake.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Good at stirring speeches, I always expected him to shout 'Sieg Heil' at the end.

Strange, that, I found a photo of him giving the Fascist/ Nazi salute.
Must have been having a forgetful moment.

The Morning Star,a paper somewhat left of left, reported that the NUM received $1.1 million from its 'Soviet Comrades'. Stalin would have been proud.

Another fact-Harold Wilson closed 290 mines losing about 330,000 jobs.
Thatcher closed 160.

Careful, cashman, don't step in a Harold Wilson.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Very politely put Gordon

That's just the way we Tories are, Barrie.
Another reason why we stand out like a sore thumb

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by cashman

Pathetic comparison, everyone who has been on here awhile, know damn well i have slagged Blair oer that n even gave up voting labour cos of him, so its you thats talking crap, used to think yeh were reasonably bright, sorry for the mistake.

As your by line says - I wouldn't dream of arguing with you

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Strange, that, I found a photo of him giving the Fascist/ Nazi salute.
Must have been having a forgetful moment.

The Morning Star,a paper somewhat left of left, reported that the NUM received $1.1 million from its 'Soviet Comrades'. Stalin would have been proud.

Another fact-Harold Wilson closed 290 mines losing about 330,000 jobs.
Thatcher closed 160.

Careful, cashman, don't step in a Harold Wilson.

What happened under Wilson is nothing to do, or nothing like what we are talking about at Orgreave, but if yer gonna use pathetic distractions, Beeching destroyed the Railways before that, and he did that to line his own "Road Haulage" pockets, aint just tories that can dig up the past, decent people can as well.

[RainbowSix]

I fail to see what any of the current discussion has to do with the OP?

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

I fail to see what any of the current discussion has to do with the OP?

Well it was a tory government who decided to deploy excessive police force and turn a blind eye to the violence and intimidation……and a tory government presiding over those who decided that the thugs dressed in police uniforms who used this excessive force to maim, manhandle and have a ‘grand day out kicking the crud out of the northerners’, and anyone else within reach had no case to answer.

The ‘ten bob tory millionaires’ using words like ‘scargill’, and ‘loony left’ to go off on a tangent and derail the simple fact that the police were out of control on this particular occasion are typical of the ‘I’m alright jack, stuff you, loadsamoney’ thatcherite yuppies of the day.

For the one who used to be in the RAF, which pre-‘this tory lot’ was a force to be reckoned with….now it would have real difficulty shooting down a paper plane made by a 5 year old, the other..well..meh!..just wait until you need the NHS or LCC care services for a loved one……

But hey…hale and healthy…decent pension or job…you can afford to be a tory…it’s only when things go wrong that you say….’Oops!’

The most diehard new labour supporters agree that Blair was a warmongering criminal…..it’s about time that the most diehard Tories agreed with the evidence that is abundant on the internet and by eye witness accounts, that there is a case to be answered here.

Oh and Barrie…in answer to how long do you go back…..it’s simple…as long as there are eye witnesses who can give evidence!

[Gordon Booth]

Unfortunately, as this thread shows, when some people get over excited they can become rude, offensive, personal and abusive.
In a face to face confrontation this can turn to physical violence. With 10,000 miners facing 5,000 police at Orgreave that's obviously what happened. As cashman said there was good and bad on both sides, none of it acceptable.

As it happens I do rely a lot on the NHS for the care of a loved one- it's very good.
Relax, the terrible Tories haven't destroyed it yet.

[Michael1954]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

In a face to face confrontation this can turn to physical violence. With 10,000 miners facing 5,000 police at Orgreave that's obviously what happened. As cashman said there was good and bad on both sides, none of it acceptable.

Which brings us back to the opening post that there should be a public inquiry. This thread only became "over excited", as you put it, when a reference was made to the Peterloo Massacre.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Unfortunately, as this thread shows, when some people get over excited they can become rude, offensive, personal and abusive.

Not to mention condescending and patronising….

You know the difference between a socialist and a thatcherite?

A socialist will readily accept that their leadership screw up from time to time, and don’t mind admitting it….whereas the thatcherite will always glorify, excuse or divert the argument away from hard facts, documentary and eye witness evidence.

And still after 3 pages of posts not one single tory has actually said that the decision to not pursue criminal actions by the police because of ‘passage of time’ is fair and just!

Paraphrasing Burke… bad guys can only win when the good guys let them….

[Neil]

I can't really comment on this as I don't know anything about it. Would you say the Wiki page is accurate as to what happened?

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Battle_of_Orgreave

[cashman]

Dunno if its 100% accurate. but its fact that pickets were escorted by police into position, anyone that knows anything about industrial actions, knows full well that normally pickets were "Prevented" from joining. it don't take a brain surgeon to figure it out.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Guinness

The ‘ten bob tory millionaires’ using words like ‘scargill’, and ‘loony left’ to go off on a tangent and derail the simple fact that the police were out of control on this particular occasion are typical of the ‘I’m alright jack, stuff you, loadsamoney’ thatcherite yuppies of the day.

For the one who used to be in the RAF, which pre-‘this tory lot’ was a force to be reckoned with….now it would have real difficulty shooting down a paper plane made by a 5 year old, the other..well..meh!..just wait until you need the NHS or LCC care services for a loved one……

But hey…hale and healthy…decent pension or job…you can afford to be a tory…it’s only when things go wrong that you say….’Oops!’

We've never met but you've obviously worked out I'm a healthy, wealthy retired banker or similar. Clever of you!
If only.
We have a Tory Government so it's obvious not all Tory voters are healthy, wealthy retired bankers, just ordinary people who couldn't risk another disastrous Labour Government.
If 3 Labour Governments hadn't borrowed past the hilt and let the bankers go wild we could still afford a decent RAF.
By the way, only you have mentioned the 'loony left'.

Originally Posted by Guinness

Not to mention condescending and patronising…

And still after 3 pages of posts not one single tory has actually said that the decision to not pursue criminal actions by the police because of ‘passage of time’ is fair and just!
.

I checked my posts, I simply quoted facts which I checked out and no one has disputed them so far.
Facts can't be condescending or patronising, they're just facts even if you don't like them.
As for attitude problems- look in a mirror.

If three separate Labour Governments didn't feel the need for an enquiry or to pursue criminal actions against the police , why should this Government, or you or I, feel a Labour Government got it wrong?

Originally Posted by Neil

I can't really comment on this as I don't know anything about it. Would you say the Wiki page is accurate as to what happened?

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Battle_of_Orgreave

It ties in with most of the info, Neil, although you'll find different figures for the numbers involved. I saw 10,000 miners, 5,000 police but it varies.
Interestingly the only quote from anyone who was actually there is from a member of the 'Women Against Pit Closures' group. No bias intended I'm sure and she was lucky not to get a real crack on the head.

[Michael1954]

It was the Independent Police Complaints Commission who rejected the call for an inquiry, so what have previous Labour governments got to do with this?