Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.

[Less]

Originally Posted by GEaston

Ok Less, then lets hear how you propose to pay for the utopia you seek.

I am not after a Utopia, all I want is a fair shake, people paid in, people now find their money was wasted, because when they claim instead of getting it back they get a hard time.

Originally Posted by GEaston

Margaret - found something we can agree on, which is that free speech is to the benefit of the forum. However, I recon far more people would contribute if they weren't shot to flames by Less and his team of playground bullies. I don't mind them at all, but as can be seen I have a thicker skin than most.

There goes that broken record, 'playground bullies', people put forward their opinions, not everyone agrees and if they are like you then they will suffer criticism rather than praise.

Originally Posted by GEaston

To your compassion point Less we can once again disagree. I've made over 50 loans to people in real need on Kiva - Loans that change lives. These people have genuine needs. I prefer to help in this way because a collective loan enables the person to get going and then is repaid allowing you to resend the same sum to another person. I would recommend anyone on the forum to take a look at it. Interestingly every one of the 50+ loans I've made was repaid (my loss if it isn't) probably because these people need help but don't want charity/pity.

Well, there you go again, you started with your very first post, 'Investing in Accrington', not so much praiseworthy, nor even worthy of praise, so much as 'hey look how good I am'!

You now tell us how you lend money 'to people in real need'.

Can I ask how do you define 'need'?

A woman so desperate she takes her own life? Or what?

Looking at what you've posted so far today she wasn't nor ever would be 'in real need', to you.

Allow me a few moments of brag, when I was wealthy enough being in a very well paid job my donations to the less fortunate until now were never broadcast and do you know whether they were for as little as 1p or umpteen thousand pounds, that's how they will remain, the people I assisted still don't know what I did, nor should it be spread around the WWW that would only be self gratification.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by GEaston

I don't wallow in nostalgia Margaret. Advances in medicine and technology obviously make comparison with previous periods not so relevant. My point was merely that the welfare state and public belief that the government owes them a house is in historic terms a new concept.

Historically people had family or nothing. Now it's family and state. This topic was started by the woman who killed herself because the government had given her a house that was too big, and wasn't giving her enough to live in it. Tragic yes, but probably not a situation that would happen in many other countries.

No one at all wanted to even talk about the 50% rise in the welfare bill since 2004, or where the extra £10 billion a year can come from. Not a single person said I think the money should be raised from this or that....... What we did see was the usual howls of greedy Tories, nasty government etc but nothing of actionable practical value.

Govt spending as was is unsustainable. The debt clocks World Debt Clocks of pretty much everywhere (except china which I note is reducing) are spinning out of control, and unlike historic periods where this happened there is no inflation to erode the value of the debt.

Not much economics here; just a massive ideological crock of horse manure ... along with a misunderstanding of the origins of the welfare state.

The welfare state was not "given", nor was it created by benevolent governments. One might argue that it was an inevitable result of universal suffrage, or that it was fought for ... possibly a combination of both. It should be paid for out of tax revenue. But with the exporting of well-paid jobs overseas ... still buying clothing made in Bangladesh are we? ... and the rich avoiding taxes by taking advantage of loopholes and overseas tax havens, tax revenue isn't what it should or could be.

[accyman]

so theres been a %50 increase in the welfare bill and even more countries lined up to join the EU who will no doubt come in their droves to take full advantage of it as well as the NHS

shhh dont agree or you will be a racist

yes we probbably are the only country with such a good welfare system and free medical treatment but were not the only ones aware of this the whole bloody world knows it can turn up here with sod all and get it as well

like iv said before its no wonder things are stretched the welsh and scottish dont pay their way and neither does most of what comes through that bloody channel tunnel

[gpick24]

Originally Posted by Less

If you and those like you stopped stealing time...

That`s a bit of a wild assumption, just who is it i`m stealing from?

[cmonstanley]

thats actually been proved to be a lie.as there has been an increase of about 15% increase in pensioners from the year 2004 yes they forgot to tell you pensions are included in the benefit bills .from 2009 till present it has rose 9% ids has been proved to be a liar like gove. a freedom of information act request found out his survey results of so called children who didnt know who winston churchill was, were from premier inns and uk gold ha ha.

[Less]

Your work time.
Now, shut up or put up something of value to the thread, far better than you have tried to target me, generally though they have at least contributed to the various threads and the site not just taken isolated pot shots.

[cmonstanley]

im a unionist but accyman your off your rocker if you think scotland doesnt pay its way. the revenue from whiskey alone pays for scotland not counting the oil tax.that tax is paying for only 6 million people ya dafty

[accyman]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

im a unionist but accyman your off your rocker if you think scotland doesnt pay its way. the revenue from whiskey alone pays for scotland not counting the oil tax.that tax is paying for only 6 million people ya dafty

yeah but they dont pay for teh methodone and other drugs to make them better

was just having another dig at how welsh and scottish dont pay for prescriptions because both parties are scared of loosing votes if they made people pay for medicine like we do

people in england on sickness benefit still have to pay for prescriptions yet someone working full time on good wagesin wales dosnt pay for prescriptions.It just isnt right we should either all pay if we can or no one pays.The revenue from precriptions from scotland and wales wouldnt hurt the economy either or at least reduce the burden on the NHS.

PS:

please dont fall out with me im fragile today and couldnt handle name calling lmaO

[gpick24]

Originally Posted by Less

Your work time.
Now, shut up or put up something of value to the thread, far better than you have tried to target me, generally though they have at least contributed to the various threads and the site not just taken isolated pot shots.

I`m sorry if you feel that i`m not entitled to defend myself when you accuse me of being a thief, but your assumptions are way off. My time is my time, and stolen from no-one

[accyman]

Originally Posted by gpick24

I`m sorry if you feel that i`m not entitled to defend myself when you accuse me of being a thief, but your assumptions are way off. My time is my time, and stolen from no-one

build him a flat and make up

preferably 1 bedroomed

[Less]

I don't give a monkies about you, you wouldn't need to defend yourself if you ceased your random and off topic wanderings through the site in an attempt at poor humour.

[gpick24]

Originally Posted by accyman

build him a flat and make up

preferably 1 bedroomed

Sorry Accyman, you`re way off also. If I were to build anything like that, it would probably fall down with a gentle breeze.

[gpick24]

Originally Posted by Less

I don't give a monkies about you...

Just checked the medicine cupboard, and we have some Nytol in.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by gpick24

Sorry Accyman, you`re way off also. If I were to build anything like that, it would probably fall down with a gentle breeze.

well it was worth a shot

[GEaston]

You may have lost your memory as well as your marbles Less. You accused me of having no compassion at all, that's the only reason that I brought up Kiva.org as it clearly invalidates your point. Now that I have though I would encourage people to look at that site.

Need is obvious when you see it. A great many of the people you'll see in Kiva are I would classify as people in need. I don't know enough about this ladies circumstances, but I'd feel responsible if my mother killed herself and sent me a note blaming a new tax.

I can't imagine you helping anyone. No evidence of any form of assistance coming from you in this forum (although in fairness to you I can't say I've delved into years worth of archives looking for something positive or encouraging that you may have ever said).