Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Exactly Margaret, Mancie and co are very select in that department in their little world if you've got of your arse and grafted and made yourself a pot of money your a nasty Tory, never realised Sir Alec Ferguson had become an honoury member of of the Tory Party though, that one musthave passed be by

Not exactly at all, i think you will find that the tax evasion thing was first mentioned by Taggy, hardly a person that can be grouped with, 'Mancie and co'.

I will try to explain for you, Taggy had introduced what is known as a parallel, in otherwords just as you wish to blame the small minority of lazy people claiming & fiddling benefits, with the unfortunate consequences of which, other narrow thinking people translate that to mean all claimants are lazy& fiddling.
There are some 'businessmen', that claim & fiddle their taxes, which has another group of narrow thinking people translating that as, all businessmen fiddle their taxes.
Both these groups of people are wrong, although a small minority of benefit claiments are 'fiddling' & a small minority of businessmen are 'fiddling', the majority in each case are honest and ordinary folk doing their best in life for themselves and their families.

Neither group should be tarred with the same brushes that stigmatise all.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

Not exactly at all, i think you will find that the tax evasion thing was first mentioned by Taggy, hardly a person that can be grouped with, 'Mancie and co'.

I will try to explain for you, Taggy had introduced what is known as a parallel, in otherwords just as you wish to blame the small minority of lazy people claiming & fiddling benefits, with the unfortunate consequences of which, other narrow thinking people translate that to mean all claimants are lazy& fiddling.
There are some 'businessmen', that claim & fiddle their taxes, which has another group of narrow thinking people translating that as, all businessmen fiddle their taxes.
Both these groups of people are wrong, although a small minority of benefit claiments are 'fiddling' & a small minority of businessmen are 'fiddling', the majority in each case are honest and ordinary folk doing their best in life for themselves and their families.

Neither group should be tarred with the same brushes that stigmatise all.

Didn't mention tax evasion, twas the fact that Mancie always slags of anybody with a few quid of being a Tory, which has always been a load of crap, if only the rich and well heeled elected Tory governments, there would never have been one in history, its a fact that the ordinary man in the street elect Tory governments, but the likes of Mancie can't see that, to judge anybody on where they place a cross on a ballot paper, is at best misguided or at the worst political bigotry, in Mancies case it that second

[Margaret Pilkington]

Maybe if we had all sat on our haunches, instead of getting up and going to work. things would be different.......none of us would have had a pot to.......well, you get my drift.

It was very interesting to note than those two who think the last government were so wonderful, and this one is such shwante,(oh and by the way Mancie, this isn't me endorsing the government...just noting facts) didn't mention the 5.2% uplift in benefits...to match the rate of inflation.

[garinda]

A system of welfare benefits, that pays more than working for a living, is wrong.

That wasn't why it was introduced, and is unsustainable.

I've given examples, where people were helped back into work, and chose to go back on benefits, because they were better off.

The system is wrong, not necessarily the people who took advantage of it.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

A system of welfare benefits, that pays more than working for a living, is wrong.

That wasn't why it was introduced, and is unsustainable.

I've given examples, where people were helped back into work, and chose to go back on benefits, because they were better off.

The system is wrong, not necessarily the people who took advantage of it.

Agree i have said exactly the same fer years about immigrants,dont blame them,blame the system.

[mobertol]

Originally Posted by garinda

A system of welfare benefits, that pays more than working for a living, is wrong.

That wasn't why it was introduced, and is unsustainable.

I've given examples, where people were helped back into work, and chose to go back on benefits, because they were better off.

The system is wrong, not necessarily the people who took advantage of it.

Undoubtedley it's wrong that someone is better off on benefits than working, if they are able to do so. Poverty was defined by the last Labour Government as a ‘household income below 60% of median income’. The median is the income earned by the household in the middle of the income distribution. I think benefit levels are calculated around this base.

It's easy to see that the problem arises from the choice of 60% of the median household income - those in lower income brackets will undoubtedly be better off on benefits unless two or more people work per household and they have low costs associated with work.

There will obviously be fluctuations in the spending power of money to take into account and the fact that people who work have costs -transport , child-care etc. so it must be quite a hard equation to balance -especially in the recent recession and considering the change in value of sterling etc. I can see that many will be border-line with what they can earn by working or in some cases even worse off...child-care is a big problem especially for single parents and can cost an exhorbitant amount.

I didn't realise that you could give up work and choose to go back on benefits -I thought that if you voluntarily gave up a position of work you automatically lost your right to any financial assistance, at least for a certain length of time...maybe I'm wrong.

As to the system being flawed that seems to be pretty obvious - in order to make it pay for people to work it is necessary to shift the level of benefits lower than the 60% median income. That would of course lead to an outcry and increased levels of "relative" poverty (absolute poverty as described by Margaret P is much less common than it used to be.)

Hard to know where to start...but those who are able to work and receive benefits should perhaps have to do a certain number of hours a week of something like community service, in any case, to justify at least some of what they receive...

[groove]

Groove cant see the point in saving for retirement or having a pension because the care home will take it all anyway, giving him the same treatment as someone who has been on benefits all their lives.

[gynn]

Originally Posted by groove

Groove cant see the point in saving for retirement or having a pension because the care home will take it all anyway, giving him the same treatment as someone who has been on benefits all their lives.

Groove should think carefully about the period between retirement and entering the care home. It could be 20-30 years.

The happiest time of your life can be after you finish work. You have the time and health to enjoy a life of leisure, so it is important to have a few bob put by.

Gynn can speak with experience as someone who DID save for a pension and retirement, and is now enjoying life to the full.

[garinda]

'MILLIONS of benefit claimants are better off living on handouts than getting a job, a Government report confirmed yesterday.'
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: You are better off on benefits

'Peter Davey, 35, a father of seven, gave up work in administration nine years ago because he realised he would be better off on state handouts.'
Family on £42,000 a year benefits because they are 'better off unemployed' - Telegraph

'An unemployed 22-year-old who featured in a BBC news report as a victim of benefits cuts has admitted he doesn’t work because he’s better off on the dole.'
Man portrayed as 'victim' of the cuts by BBC says 'I'm better off on benefits' | Mail Online


A system, that makes it more financially rewarding to live on welfare benefits, than to work for an income, is wrong.


Period.

[Margaret Pilkington]

[quote=mobertol;954745

Hard to know where to start...but those who are able to work and receive benefits should perhaps have to do a certain number of hours a week of something like community service, in any case, to justify at least some of what they receive...[/quote]

But there is a flaw in that solution, why would a council employ steet sweepers if the unemployed were going to do it to get their benefits?....or whatever it was that it was decided was the right job to 'earn' the benefits.

I don't know what the answer is...unless it is co-operatives growing stuff on allotments and then selling it on the market.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by gynn

Groove should think carefully about the period between retirement and entering the care home. It could be 20-30 years.

The happiest time of your life can be after you finish work. You have the time and health to enjoy a life of leisure, so it is important to have a few bob put by.

Gynn can speak with experience as someone who DID save for a pension and retirement, and is now enjoying life to the full.

I'll tell you what gynn groove might have a point really, my parents, like quite a lot of people in their generation were very thrifty and saved for their old age, but when they came to retire, they were unable to claim anything whereas those who had led the life of riley out on the beer every night and not saving a penny for that rainy day could claim the earth

[Margaret Pilkington]

John, I have done that too.....saved all of my life.... even if it was only a few bob...... if it was left over at the end of the week it went into the savings tin. Fat lot of good it has done me. But would I change it....No, I really find it very hard to ask for help of any kind.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

John, I have done that too.....saved all of my life.... even if it was only a few bob...... if it was left over at the end of the week it went into the savings tin. Fat lot of good it has done me. But would I change it....No, I really find it very hard to ask for help of any kind.

To be honest I was always like that, infect the last time I was in hospital, they refused to discharge me unless I agreed to accept that I needed help at home, but I'm now glad I did because it has made my life that much easier, even if it has cost me my independence

[Margaret Pilkington]

John, there comes a time I suppose, when you can no longer ignore a situation....fortunately, I haven't been there myself yet...but have helped others who have. I like helping out. It makes me feel useful.
The old lady next door, Ma, the old feller at the other side. I like to do for them in the hope that perhaps I won't need anyone to do things for me at any point.
By the way, how is George, your carer...the last time we heard, he was poorly in hospital.
I hope he is fully recovered now and looking after you well.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

John, there comes a time I suppose, when you can no longer ignore a situation....fortunately, I haven't been there myself yet...but have helped others who have. I like helping out. It makes me feel useful.
The old lady next door, Ma, the old feller at the other side. I like to do for them in the hope that perhaps I won't need anyone to do things for me at any point.
By the way, how is George, your carer...the last time we heard, he was poorly in hospital.
I hope he is fully recovered now and looking after you well.

George is doing quite well now Margaret, in fact he came out of hospital a week yesterday and popped round with his wife to see me on Saturday, he's a lot better, but it will be a while before he's back, but at least he's getting there and making good progress, wouldn't be surprised if he isn't reading this