BENEFITS hmmmm

[Accyexplorer]

Originally Posted by Studio25

No, not all, just partly. Just as it's partly my fault for not caring that you avoided paying tax in the past.

Thanks for the constructive criticism S,Don't forget it's also all our faults for "not caring" about the "ones the top".

Originally Posted by Studio25

I think you'll find that the working classes are the least likely to be avoiding tax. The "ones at the top" have everyone over a barrel because most people don't have the funds to weasel out of a tax bill, either using an accountant to avoid it legally or a lawyer if they are caught doing it illegally.

Perhaps,I shouldn't lecture and condemn others for it when I've done it myself....it's called rank hypocrisy

Like i said previously, i'm willing to take a prison sentence and/or wealth confiscation proportional to the amount avoided/evaded if/when the "ones at the top" do.

[Accyexplorer]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Now you can see why you have to vote Tory- Labour, the new nasty party!

Our peg has just given me a voting letter from the other day,on the back it says i may be liable for a £80 fine (cheeky barstools) if we don't register

I wonder how many £80 fines HBC has issued,i'll hazard a guess at none.

I also wonder does HBC sell this info they're collecting? Hmmm

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Voting changes nothing....if it did they would stop us from doing it.

I find myself not being able to agree with this (with anyone else I would say "you are dead wrong" ... but you're special; so, I'll be circumspect). Look, for example, at the Canadian General Election of 1993. Our systems and political procedures are so similar that this is a valid example. Or, closer to home, Attlee's election victory. From the Magna Carta, whose 800th. anniversary will be celebrated on June 15, the history of England (we can forget about the Jocks, Taffies, and Micks) is the history of the rise of the power of the masses, unwashed and common as muck as they may be. Sure, it hasn't been a seamless progression, maybe because only 5% of the population give a [deleted], but it's in the history books for all to read. (Also in back issues of Beano, and the debates between Dennis and Lord Snooty). It's not time to give up on it.

One suggestion, which would never be accepted by current parliamentarians, is to implement Article 6 of the "People's Charter" of 1838.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Eric, it is heartwarming that you think I am special.
The good thing about friends(and even though we have never met I do consider you to be a friend) is that they can hold differing opinions without it coming to blows.

I used to believe in democracy....but alas, I am greatly disillusioned.
Politicians say absolutely anything to get your vots...and once you have put your cross in their box they can do as they please without any let or hindrance.
They believe themselves to be a cut above the common people...you know...those people who pay their salaries and expenses.....they treat us all as if we are blind imbeciles.
They tell us we should do one thing while they do another...they feel that they are subject to different rules.
They believe themselves to be our masters, when in fact what they really should be is the servant of their constituents...not the servant of the party to which they have aligned themselves.
You could not put a sheet of bronco between the different political parties...and I am heartily sick of punch and judy politics......the slinging of mud, the personal insults......because they are all a shower of shi-ite.

I do care. I would like to make a difference. I spent my working life in a profession where making a difference was my main aim, but I cannot see the ballot box and particularly my vote making one iota of difference to how this country is run and managed.
Those who make the rules are unelected and reside not in this country, but in Brussels and that cannot be right.
As for article six of the People Charter 1838.....I had no knowledge of what it was(remember I am a lass that left school at 15 to go and earn a crust....very little book learning).
I turned to Google to educate me......and I have only had a very cursory look at it......I will read, mark and learn it later....when I have cleaned the paint spots off my new floorboards.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Eric, it is heartwarming that you think I am special.
The good thing about friends(and even though we have never met I do consider you to be a friend) is that they can hold differing opinions without it coming to blows.

I used to believe in democracy....but alas, I am greatly disillusioned.
Politicians say absolutely anything to get your vots...and once you have put your cross in their box they can do as they please without any let or hindrance.
They believe themselves to be a cut above the common people...you know...those people who pay their salaries and expenses.....they treat us all as if we are blind imbeciles.
They tell us we should do one thing while they do another...they feel that they are subject to different rules.
They believe themselves to be our masters, when in fact what they really should be is the servant of their constituents...not the servant of the party to which they have aligned themselves.
You could not put a sheet of bronco between the different political parties...and I am heartily sick of punch and judy politics......the slinging of mud, the personal insults......because they are all a shower of shi-ite.

I do care. I would like to make a difference. I spent my working life in a profession where making a difference was my main aim, but I cannot see the ballot box and particularly my vote making one iota of difference to how this country is run and managed.
Those who make the rules are unelected and reside not in this country, but in Brussels and that cannot be right.
As for article six of the People Charter 1838.....I had no knowledge of what it was(remember I am a lass that left school at 15 to go and earn a crust....very little book learning).
I turned to Google to educate me......and I have only had a very cursory look at it......I will read, mark and learn it later....when I have cleaned the paint spots off my new floorboards.

I agree with most of what you say Margaret but I do think it is wrong not to vote - as little impact you may think that has. However, if many people think and do exactly as you, then the only ones to benefit is the party who have the strongest political machine behind them or the hereditary support
I am nowhere near being in anything like full agreement with what is going on now, however, I do accept that a great deal of what we all suffer now is the result of having Blair/Brown in power and squandering the wealth of the country and the lives of our troops - and remember that Red Ed and Loads o' Balls were advisers to them.
And now we have the spectre of the SNP doing a deal with Labour - why, oh why couldn't the BBC/ITV/Sky show continuous re-runs of Braveheart before the Scottish referendum.
I don't know what the answer is or who I shall vote for - I do know who I will not support - one lie to the electorate from our representative who is supposed to be true to his constituents is one lie too many for me.
So do I protest and vote for UKIP which could well be a vote against the Tories and a vote for Labour.
Something of a conundrum.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

As for article six of the People Charter 1838.....I had no knowledge of what it was(remember I am a lass that left school at 15 to go and earn a crust....very little book learning).
I turned to Google to educate me......and I have only had a very cursory look at it......I will read, mark and learn it later....when I have cleaned the paint spots off my new floorboards.

I was going to put in a link, or even write it out, but there's google ... it'll even tell you what a googleplex is.

It's still too early to give up on democracy of some sort ... some sort better than it is now ... The one per cent can't win ... after all, they are kind of outnumbered (by about 99 to 1).

[Accyexplorer]

Originally Posted by Eric

I find myself not being able to agree with this (with anyone else I would say "you are dead wrong" ... but you're special; so, I'll be circumspect). Look, for example, at the Canadian General Election of 1993. Our systems and political procedures are so similar that this is a valid example. Or, closer to home, Attlee's election victory. From the Magna Carta, whose 800th. anniversary will be celebrated on June 15, the history of England (we can forget about the Jocks, Taffies, and Micks) is the history of the rise of the power of the masses, unwashed and common as muck as they may be. Sure, it hasn't been a seamless progression, maybe because only 5% of the population give a [deleted], but it's in the history books for all to read. (Also in back issues of Beano, and the debates between Dennis and Lord Snooty). It's not time to give up on it.

One suggestion, which would never be accepted by current parliamentarians, is to implement Article 6 of the "People's Charter" of 1838.

My "back issues of Beano" clearly state "there is no peaceful way to sort this mess out"....

....Viva la revolucion .....

[Accyexplorer]

They (those at the top) have already took over most of the world's money supply and with that they control most of the world's media and Govts.
Education for the masses has been dumbed down to Beano level and we're fed a mind numbing diet of distraction and confusion.

The only thing keeping us from undisguised totalitarianism is the need to keep us compliant with their fake democracy and fabricated enemies.
All they need is another world war (and it's coming) in order to bring in the next wave of large changes like the previous two enabled.
The destabilisation of the Middle East and Caucasus is a prelude to this.....or to but it another way 'we are goosed regardless'....


....that's my cheery thought out the way for another day.

[cashman]

Well i aint bothered, am too old to be conscripted.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by cashman

Well i aint bothered, am too old to be conscripted.

Oh I don't know, Jonesy!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

I agree with most of what you say Margaret but I do think it is wrong not to vote - as little impact you may think that has. However, if many people think and do exactly as you, then the only ones to benefit is the party who have the strongest political machine behind them or the hereditary support
I am nowhere near being in anything like full agreement with what is going on now, however, I do accept that a great deal of what we all suffer now is the result of having Blair/Brown in power and squandering the wealth of the country and the lives of our troops - and remember that Red Ed and Loads o' Balls were advisers to them.
And now we have the spectre of the SNP doing a deal with Labour - why, oh why couldn't the BBC/ITV/Sky show continuous re-runs of Braveheart before the Scottish referendum.
I don't know what the answer is or who I shall vote for - I do know who I will not support - one lie to the electorate from our representative who is supposed to be true to his constituents is one lie too many for me.
So do I protest and vote for UKIP which could well be a vote against the Tories and a vote for Labour.
Something of a conundrum.

I always...always trundle down to the polling station.......and I always cast a vote...or maybe no, I use my ballot paper, but sometimes I will tick none of the boxes and sometimes I will write something on my paper.
I cast my vote last time in favour of a local chap.
I figured that he knew the area, knew the people well...knew of their concerns and their worries and was best placed to do something for his town.
Fool me once shame on you! I can tell you he won't be fooling me again.
And this is what is so disappointing......those who have the power and ability to do good do not use it for that. Instead they use it to further their own ends.
I vote with my head and my conscience. I am one of those 'floating voters'.......I have no allegiance to any party.......I do not vote the way my parents voted.....but I truly do believe that voting changes nothing......and that democracy is a myth to shut the electorate up......and sometimes to blame them when the fisons hits the fan.

[Studio25]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

I agree with most of what you say Margaret but I do think it is wrong not to vote - as little impact you may think that has...

Everyone has the right to make their voice heard - equally everyone who doesn't want to be heard has the right to obscurity. I've said before that (in my opinion) the fact that they can vote and choose not to means that they are just as responsible for the outcome of an election as the people who do vote.

Incidentally, according to Radio 4's More or Less program, non-voters are probably not affecting election outcomes by not voting. A poll (by the Today program in 2001) of which parties a non-voter would have put their mark against if they had voted, yielded results of similar proportions to those achieved by the people who did vote. Article starts at 15:30, non-voter poll starts at 18:00.

[cashman]

Perhaps n idea would be to put a box on the ballot paper saying " I choose not to vote for any of these Charlatans" P.S. i put summat else but it was asterisked out.

[Margaret Pilkington]

If you vote then your voice doesn't necessarily get heard (though it may get heard it is often disregarded), politicians do what their party tells them to do. This is not always in line with what is best for those who elected the MP.

MP's seem to treat their electorate with ill disguised contempt. Our own MP falls into this category as he believes that we are not educated enough to make relevant decisions regarding political issues that concern us.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cashman

Perhaps n idea would be to put a box on the ballot paper saying " I choose not to vote for any of these Charlatans" P.S. i put summat else but it was asterisked out.

I have gone to the polling station and written 'none of the above' more than once.
I go to the polling station to show that I am not too idle to haul my carcass down there, but that I cannot in all conscience vote for any of the choices given to me.
Does this mean that I am not entitled to hold an opinion...or to express an opinion?
Even if voting became compulsory I would not vote for someone who I thought could not run a chip shop.(and that means most of the politicians in office right now).
I haven't a clue which way I will vote at the next election.......I need to wait and see what the parties come up with...but so far it is looking rather bleak.