Betrayed??

SPUGGIE J · 10-11-2006, 19:38

While going through the "wear you red poppy with pride" I thought about an article I had read about the veterans of a WWII "suicide mission" These are the men who sailed the artic convoys to Murmansk and Archangel in Russia. Now after years of campaigning the MOD commisioned an Artic Emblem this year which is great apart from the fact to quote one of the vetarans who had a "badge that looked like it came out of a crisp packet" which many are disgusted with. Its about the size of a penny and looks more "like a shirt button" leading to some refusing to accept it.

I happen to think that it is disgusting that this happened and is an insult to the surviving families of those who did not return. These men not only had to endure the cold uboats and certain death if they fell in the water (too dangerous to retrieve survivors) but the sight of those that did die in the water after being torpedoed. There may have been soldiers and mariens on these ships but i believe that all the merchent seamen who maned ships in convoy's were volunteers, though I could be wrong. To treat them this way gives the impression that the MOD dosnt give a blue tit about these men and families. I hope these deskbound soft handed jobs for life bums are proud of themselves for doing this disgusting thing!!!

Ianto.W. · 10-11-2006, 20:11

The men that died on these convoys Murmansk, North Atlantic, before the 'Yank's' decided to join, had a thankless task, U.Boats, bad weather which was freezing most of the time, my uncle was torpedoed twice in one day off Nova Scotia, survived only to die in the 'Great Bombay Explosion' in 1944. My grandmother had to move heaven and earth to get his name placed on Accrington war memorial, the Merchant Marine was not considered a fighting force.

bullseyebarb · 10-11-2006, 20:27

From the poem, Tommy by Rudyard Kipling -

"For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Savior of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot."

Our veterans deserve better than they all too frequently receive.

SPUGGIE J · 10-11-2006, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ianto.W.

My grandmother had to move heaven and earth to get his name placed on Accrington war memorial, the Merchant Marine was not considered a fighting force.

That is a disgrace considering that without them we could have lost the war.

Ianto.W. · 10-11-2006, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

From the poem, Tommy by Rudyard Kipling -

"For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Savior of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot."

Our veterans deserve better than they all too frequently receive.

When you lie wounded on the Afgan Plain, and the women are let loose to pick at your remains, gather up you rifle and blow out you brains, and go to your God like a soldier. Apologies if the quote is not word perfect. Rudyard Kipling.

Doug · 10-11-2006, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

While going through the "wear you red poppy with pride" I thought about an article I had read about the veterans of a WWII "suicide mission" These are the men who sailed the artic convoys to Murmansk and Archangel in Russia. Now after years of campaigning the MOD commisioned an Artic Emblem this year which is great apart from the fact to quote one of the vetarans who had a "badge that looked like it came out of a crisp packet" which many are disgusted with. Its about the size of a penny and looks more "like a shirt button" leading to some refusing to accept it.

I happen to think that it is disgusting that this happened and is an insult to the surviving families of those who did not return. These men not only had to endure the cold uboats and certain death if they fell in the water (too dangerous to retrieve survivors) but the sight of those that did die in the water after being torpedoed. There may have been soldiers and mariens on these ships but i believe that all the merchent seamen who maned ships in convoy's were volunteers, though I could be wrong. To treat them this way gives the impression that the MOD dosnt give a blue tit about these men and families. I hope these deskbound soft handed jobs for life bums are proud of themselves for doing this disgusting thing!!!

For those interested

It's not a lot for what these Men and their familys laid down.

Medals - The Arctic Emblem

WillowTheWhisp · 10-11-2006, 23:13

What a feeble excuse for a medal ...... sorry, emblem

SPUGGIE J · 10-11-2006, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

For those interested

It's not a lot for what these Men and their familys laid down.

Medals - The Arctic Emblem

Thats the first time I have seen the badge pictured and its not a disgrace its a bloody insult to those that died as well that survived. Its on these occassions that I am ashamed to be British when this is the best that they can come up with.

Some MSP's are pushing for something better in the light of this mess as a lot of these men left from Scotland to do the Artic run.

jambutty · 11-11-2006, 18:26

It sounds like a repetition of the Veteran’s Lapel Badge - an after thought and a cheap one at that.

I wonder if this ‘emblem’ was made in China like the VLP. At least it doesn’t appear to have two dents in the face, which is an improvement I suppose.

I wonder if the MOD is now going to honour the whole of the Merchant Marine because without those incredibly brave men and women, we in the British Isles would have had to throw stones at the enemy whilst we starved and ended up eating German sausage and bread. Tens of thousands of merchant sailors lost their lives in the Atlantic, Mediterranean, Indian and Pacific oceans. The carnage was on a par with any theatre of war on land or in the air.

Can anyone possibly imagine what it must have been like boarding your ship in the States, that has been loaded with ammunition or aviation fuel, joining a convoy of 100 merchant ships to run the U-boat gauntlet across the Atlantic in the full knowledge that if just 20 ships got through unscathed they would be extremely lucky. Only to arrive at Liverpool and have the Luftwaffe chucking bombs at you as you try to unload.

Many torpedoed sailors who were lucky enough to be rescued and didn’t have their lungs burned away with fuel oil, once they recovered from any injuries, they signed up again for another trip through hell on water in the full knowledge that their chances of staying alive were practically non existent.

SPUGGIE J · 11-11-2006, 19:58

I believe that the proportional percentage loss among the merchant marine was higher than that of the armed forces. There should be more pressure on these desk jockeys to do right by those who served in this vital part of the wartime effort and should also apply to those that also did the same in the first world war.