Big changes in Education.

Margaret Pilkington · 24-10-2005, 19:23

It looks like TB has his spanner out again to do some more tinkering.....not with the NHS this time, but with Education.
It seems that there are going to be some pretty big changes in line for the children.......Bog Standard Comprehensive Schools are going to go.
There will be more rigid classroom discipline system......and teachers will be allowed to use 'reasonable' force to ensure discipline is maintained.....(does anyone out there have a definition of what constitutes 'reasonable' force....? A cane, a slipper, a well aimed board duster.....oh, Yeah.... no Blackboards now!) Schools will be able to set their own entry requirements and the teaching curriculum. Private enterprise will be encouraged to get involved in the financial support of schools. Parents could even set up their own schools.... though I am not sure how this would be financed.....unless of course it was via business sponsorship.....or via education grants from the government.

Am I being a bit cynical in thinking that the discipline issues are about 20 years too late?

Have you any strong views about how you would like to see the education system improved? What are your views?

grego · 24-10-2005, 19:36

I think that lack of discipline in schools as a lot to answer for Margaret, I think its the biggest mistake that was made, we now have children and some adults who think they can do what they like and have no respect for anyone.

Margaret Pilkington · 24-10-2005, 19:52

Grego, I agree entirely and it is not a trend that is easy to reverse.
The attitude that children can do what they like without being adequately checked is, I believe, responsible for an awful lot of society's ills.

Attitudes are notoriously difficult to change.....especially for the better.

Tinkerbelle · 24-10-2005, 20:01

I think it will take years to instil discipline back into the classroom, redardless of any measurements the Government now deem necessary, too little too late IMHO! The teaching staff should never have had their hands tied so much, were the students had more rights than the staff and were left without being able to command the respect of their pupils. A cane, or board duster never gained any respect for the teachers, just fear.

Margaret Pilkington · 24-10-2005, 20:08

Again, this another observation that I think is very true...too little, too late.
And the fact that good teachers have been demoralised by general lack of support when trying to instill dsicipline into children.

I had a teacher at Peel Park.....a well known man, Mr Gleave.....he used to dole out the slipper. I can't say it made me fearful of him.....and I certainly respected him.....but times were different then.
Children need to know where the ground rules are. They are always going to test the rules and maybe try it on.

I also think that the foundation of respect and discipline must be laid before the child goes to school.....so I think it will be a couple of generations before we see any appreciable change.....because to some parents, respect and discipline are strangers in their homes.

harwood red · 24-10-2005, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I also think that the foundation of respect and discipline must be laid before the child goes to school.....so I think it will be a couple of generations before we see any appreciable change.....because to some parents, respect and dsicipline are strangers in their homes.

The most common sense statement I have read in a long time...

would give you some karma but I have to spread it around!!!!

Margaret Pilkington · 24-10-2005, 20:29

It's Ok H.R.......I just tell it like I see it.....and that is my take on the situation, for what it is worth.

harwood red · 24-10-2005, 20:37

I have always maintained that if a child is not taught respect from an early age then there is no chance. By teaching respect parents must also show respect when deserved otherwise the kids will just think what's the point!

West Ender · 24-10-2005, 21:23

It all comes down to discipline, in my opinion. My generation was brought up disciplined. You had no choice but to behave at school, or in the streets, otherwise you were punished. The cane in schools, well God Forbid, but it worked, you didn't have kids going into school armed with knives etc., and of course most of the young men had the discipline of National Service.

I had my 2 older children in the 60s, my 3rd in 1975. There was beginning to be a change of approach in child-rearing at the time. Parents were told that children must have freedom to "express themselves" and discipline, for its own sake, was outmoded and unnecessary. I'm afraid I didn't follow the "new" thinking.

We only have to look at the parents of today who were born and brought up in that era, which combined with the new approach to education - don't make them sit down and learn, let them "discover themselves" - and we see the results.

A return to discipline in schools is good but the schools will have an uphill battle against a generation of parents who consider themselves and their children untouchable. Far too little, far too late.

garinda · 24-10-2005, 21:51

I'd be more suprised if Tony Blair left the education system alone, because he thought it was working wonderfully. I think the reintroduction of discipline into schools can only be a good thing, although I agree with an earlier post that the cane isn't always the right answer. A good teacher can command and educate a class without the threat of violence.

There was a really interesting Panorama programme on television last night, about how where you live affects the type of life you can look forward to, everything from what qualifications you could expect to your life expectancy. It compared two neighbouring parts of Havant in Hampshire. It followed one little boy, and his hard working parents, on a poor estate whose educational aspirations were determined by his postcode, ie: good neighbourhood = good school, and also the reverse for him. I think that at this stage of our civilisation every child should have the right to a thorough and decent education.

I'm also glad that within the next two years English and Mathematics will be included in the information schools have to publish. At the moment they only have to give out the percentages of students who achieve five GCSE's grades A-C, a figure that could be misleading as they could all be in Mickey Mouse subjects like Travel and Tourism.

When I was at school boys in my class were caned. I wasn't. I never got caught.

Acrylic-bob · 25-10-2005, 04:50

Spoiled Brat Syndrome. Yes it has a name! It is the way parents bring up their brats that contributes more than anything else to ill-discipline in schools and on the streets. When you have a generation of children who have the same rights as adults but none of the responsibilities then you are just asking for trouble. As reactionary as it may sound, children should be seen and not heard.

lettie · 25-10-2005, 07:28

I couldn't agree more that discipline needs to be brought back into schools. I was never caned because I never had to be, but I know plenty of people who were, and once caned, it was a good deterrent. My step mum currently works in one of our local comprehensive schools. She reckons that there is not a teacher in that school who wouldn't welcome the return of corporal punishment. A large percentage of the kids are abusive and sometimes violent, not just towards each other but towards the staff. The parents of these kids couldn't care less.

Bringing in changes in the comprehensive system is way too little too late. Changes must be brought in from infant schools and continued during junior school. By the time a child gets to comprehensive school their behaviour is already pretty much established..