Boy, 11, is shot dead in car park - Page 2

Lampman · 23-08-2007, 17:59

Yes as stated we are a generation to late the rot has set in,start again with the younger ones entering school.Discipline,respect and learning the difference between right and wrong should be a staple lesson taught by people who are not tree hugging left leggers.
Forget boot camp for teenagers start afresh!!

LancYorkYankee · 23-08-2007, 18:38

Gosh I could go off in many ways here but just to make one point. Who is to teach the next generation morals, values, respect? Many of the soon to be parents, by many admissions above, have not had that upbringing. How can they teach it to their children? I agree it's not the government's problem to solve and most of the churches have failed in this role (IMO).

Brian

Lampman · 23-08-2007, 19:35

We could reinstate some of the old ways in schools.Give teachers and Heads the backing to punish wrongdoers.to be able to permantly exclude disruptive violent pupils and yes bring back approved schools for the little dears who wont toe the line.
Though no angel as a youngster I was in no doubt of the retribution that would be dolled out by teachers and Police if I was caught doing wrong.
Time to abandon the carrot method of rewarding wrongdoers with holidays and Play Stations (for not transgressing) and put a little fear into those who at the moment intimidate 'normal everyday folk'.
The money spent on cajoling young tearaways beggars belief...spend it instead on more Police patrols and prisons,one example I witnessed;was when a youngster in the P.R scheme had a teacher plus an assistant teaching him when he turned 'difficult' a phone call summoned a third person who arrived by car and then literally had to pick the pupil up,carry him out and drive him away(possibly to Blackpoool for a treat)
The experiment has failed ...start again!!

Eric · 23-08-2007, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by LancYorkYankee

Gosh I could go off in many ways here but just to make one point. Who is to teach the next generation morals, values, respect? Many of the soon to be parents, by many admissions above, have not had that upbringing. How can they teach it to their children? I agree it's not the government's problem to solve and most of the churches have failed in this role (IMO).

Brian

I don't think that the churches have failed, I think that the idea of god is dead for most people. Not surprisingly the First World War put paid to that for a lot of people, particularly the men who had been at the front, the mothers who had lost sons, and those who had lost husbands and lovers. Not surprisingly, Existentialism flourished after the First War, even tho it didn't begin then. It interests me that parents in tough times, depression and war, seem to instill solid values in their children ... not always, I agree, but a lot of the time. But we don't want to go back to poverty and laissez-faire govts in order to get the young straightened around. Humans are resourceful creatures, (especially when it comes to technological fixes which won't work here). Between giving up, boarding up, arming, and letting the masses go to hell on the welfare train, and instituting some ultra right wing regime that will crush crime and civil liberties with the same jackboot, there has to be at least one middle way.

In case you are waiting, I have no firm idea of what it is.

Lampman · 23-08-2007, 19:52

Eric's mention of the First World War,reminds me of that often repeated excuse.'he came from a broken home/single parent family'
How many single parent familees were there after WW1 and the replay.
How many of these kids grew up to be decent law abiding citizens??
MOST

BERNADETTE · 23-08-2007, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampman

Eric's mention of the First World War,reminds me of that often repeated excuse.'he came from a broken home/single parent family'
How many single parent familees were there after WW1 and the replay.
How many of these kids grew up to be decent law abiding citizens??
MOST

Does anybody actually know that the perpetrators of this horrendous crime are from broken homes? It just seems that whenever anything horrific like this happens it is always assumed that this is the case. I am sure single parents and their children must resent these implacations. Surely not all badly behaved kids come from broken homes!!

SPUGGIE J · 23-08-2007, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

Does anybody actually know that the perpetrators of this horrendous crime are from broken homes? It just seems that whenever anything horrific like this happens it is always assumed that this is the case. I am sure single parents and their children must resent these implacations. Surely not all badly behaved kids come from broken homes!!

Agree with that. I know of a few from good homes that are like they are to look cool to their mates. Some of the single parents have better behaved kids than those with ma n pa at home. Those of a single parent accept that there is a limit but some from a stable home are used to getting and doing as they please.

BERNADETTE · 23-08-2007, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Agree with that. I know of a few from good homes that are like they are to look cool to their mates. Some of the single parents have better behaved kids than those with ma n pa at home. Those of a single parent accept that there is a limit but some from a stable home are used to getting and doing as they please.

I watched a parenting programme on tv a while back, it seemed to me that the single parents took all the advice on board and really changed their kids behaviour as a result(and believe me it was horrendous behaviour from young kids) whilst the couples just didn't seem to grasp that changes were needed!!

cmonstanley · 23-08-2007, 20:19

this is just short of scandalous just shows all the cuts in the police service wasnt plausible torys and labour are both guilty of inept planning .the population at its highest ever .i know lets have cuts in the police force the torys started and labour kept on doing it.its now out of control there thatcher has a lot to answer for she created a greedy selfish society which has caused resentment for the ones left behind.we should cut down on immagration as well as our island is getting a little crowded and will only make things worse we should close the borders and weed[no pun intended] out the suppliers the big men and work the way down scrap funding for all these stupid artistic ideas and diversity programmes and triple funding the police force and take control again or people will be forced into being vigilantes.its like what it says on shakermakers signiture lets police people singing but its alright to walk about shooting people cause you wont get caught cause the police are too busy policing what people sing at football matches its a farce this country is

garinda · 23-08-2007, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampman

Eric's mention of the First World War,reminds me of that often repeated excuse.'he came from a broken home/single parent family'
How many single parent familees were there after WW1 and the replay.
How many of these kids grew up to be decent law abiding citizens??
MOST

But that well behaved generation brought up the next, who brought up the next, and we end up with the situation we have to day.

Somehow the idea of respect seems to have got lost along the way.

Lampman · 23-08-2007, 21:24

In my earlier posting,I wasn't inferring that a single parent family is the cause of tearaways,It is however often used to excuse behaviour.
I have just watched the news showing the little lad's heartbroken parents,unfortunately it is becoming an all to regular occurence.
I reiterate nip the bad behaviour in the bud;start with the very young now not tomorrow.
Let's hear some resolution and commitment from Gordon Brown not meanless handwringing.

Royboy39 · 23-08-2007, 21:47

I cannot believe that someone could post over the importance of this thread.

Busman747 · 23-08-2007, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by LancYorkYankee

Gosh I could go off in many ways here but just to make one point. Who is to teach the next generation morals, values, respect? Many of the soon to be parents, by many admissions above, have not had that upbringing. How can they teach it to their children? I agree it's not the government's problem to solve and most of the churches have failed in this role (IMO).

Brian

My daughter (Mimi) watched this news item on the TV last night, she sat quietly for a minute or so and with a tear in her eye turned to me and said: Quote - "I am so blessed and thankful that I have been brought up in our (LDS) church. If I hadn't (been) I might have hung around with kids like them" I cannot see how you could possibly blame Churches in any way for the violence on our streets especially from children! How DID you come to the conclusion so quickly that it is the fault or responsibility of the Church? - - - and why is it not the governments responsibility to find a solution to this problem? They dictate how many police are "on the ground," They tie up the force with red tape, They are responsible for building prisons, They are responsible for the type of punishment judges are legally bound to give out.........the list can go on and on...

Royboy39 · 23-08-2007, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busman747

My daughter (Mimi) watched this news item on the TV last night, she sat quietly for a minute or so and with a tear in her eye turned to me and said: Quote - "I am so blessed and thankful that I have been brought up in our (LDS) church. If I hadn't (been) I might have hung around with kids like them" I cannot see how you could possibly blame Churches in any way for the violence on our streets especially from children! How DID you come to the conclusion so quickly that it is the fault or responsibility of the Church? - - - and why is it not the governments responsibility to find a solution to this problem? They dictate how many police are "on the ground," They tie up the force with red tape, They are responsible for building prisons, They are responsible for the type of punishment judges are legally bound to give out.........the list can go on and on...

I think the overall message to all the authorities who are in charge of our well being is 'Get a bloody grip'

shillelagh · 23-08-2007, 22:24

The government cannot bring your kids up for you. The parents are the ones who teach them right from wrong. Then when they get older - friends are their influences along with tv, radio, newspapers, music, internet etc. You cant blame just one its them all. Im lucky in a way i dont have any kids and so dont have to bother about outside influences on my kids. But i do have nieces and nephews and 3 of them are teenagers 18, 15, and 13. You dont know what your kids get up to once they leave the house to go out with their mates. You only hope that once they are out that they dont forget what you have taught them - to respect their elders, behave, dont get involved in drugs, etc. It's not the church's fault, its not the governments fault, its not the parents fault - its the kids themselves if they do something against the law then they should take the full consequences not see it as a holiday etc. Those kids who have been arrested for this one is 14 one is 18. They are old enough to know what is right and what is wrong.