Boy, 11, is shot dead in car park

Lampman · 22-08-2007, 21:20

An 11 year old boy was shot dead in a Croxteth pub car park tonight allegedly by a youth on a BMX bike.More signs that we are losing control of our streets....how long before we import this in our area?

SPUGGIE J · 22-08-2007, 21:48

At this rate we will be as bad as bad as the American cities. What the hell could a 11 year old have done to deserve a bullet????

It is safe to say that we are losing the battle with these young thugs.

kathleen_firth · 22-08-2007, 21:49

thats awaful were abouts is that

BERNADETTE · 22-08-2007, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampman

An 11 year old boy was shot dead in a Croxteth pub car park tonight allegedly by a youth on a BMX bike.More signs that we are losing control of our streets....how long before we import this in our area?

Just been on the news, he was taken to Alder Hey Hospital but was dead on arrival, how horrendous is this news? It was only the other week we had a thread going about letting kids enjoy life, well I said then and I will say now they need watching!!

kathleen_firth · 22-08-2007, 22:17

thats very true bernadette we cant let our kids walk the streets without getting hurt.......... no justice will come from this either

beechy · 23-08-2007, 12:41

two kids 14 & 18 apprehended
were the heck do they get guns
at that age

Eric · 23-08-2007, 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by beechy

two kids 14 & 18 apprehended
were the heck do they get guns
at that age

There is no shortage of guns on this planet, and they are not hard to get a hold of, even in countries like England and Canada which have fairly strict gun control laws. Our experience in Canada is that most types of crime are on the decrease; however, violence, particularly with firearms is on the increase, particularly among black, poor urban youth. This being the case, some difficult questions pose themselves. And with difficult questions, there are no easy answers: "hang the bastards," and "send them back where they came from," are just not good enough, for many reasons.

To put things in a not too reassuring perspective, the city of Detroit has more murders annually than the whole British Isles.

cashman · 23-08-2007, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

At this rate we will be as bad as bad as the American cities. What the hell could a 11 year old have done to deserve a bullet????

It is safe to say that we are losing the battle with these young thugs.

very safe to say spug,like Eric says there are no " Easy Answers" the only place i can envisage to start is the source i.e.(upbringing) cos until respect and discipline is taught- Forget It, its a hell of a long haul,but summats gotta happen.

Lampman · 23-08-2007, 14:42

I agree Cashman get the basics right;then all will follow.
But where will the guidance come from none of the wishy washy political parties seem to actually do anything.
Meanwhile anarchy grows.

shakermaker · 23-08-2007, 15:36

This is so sad. An eleven year old lad shot dead. God.
Terrible incident, my condolences to his family

Later that night BBC news had some muppet blaming the incedent on "gangsta rap lyrics".
Please let's not become like the Americans, being so ignorant as to start blaming meaningless song lyrics for serious crimes like this! (Marilyn Manson caused the Columbine shootings you know).

Eric · 23-08-2007, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

This is so sad. An eleven year old lad shot dead. God.
Terrible incident, my condolences to his family

Later that night BBC news had some muppet blaming the incedent on "gangsta rap lyrics".
Please let's not become like the Americans, being so ignorant as to start blaming meaningless song lyrics for serious crimes like this! (Marilyn Manson caused the Columbine shootings you know).

Of course one could argue that "gangsta rap lyrics", violent video games, violent movies, violent news clips from battle zones, WWE, etc may have an effect on the young that it doesn't have on more mature people. That is: we know it is fiction and entertainment; the young may tend to confuse fiction and reality.

But in America things may be different. Not too long ago they had a president who thought Star Wars ws real enough to base a defence system on, and that the Village People's "In the Navy" would make a great recruiting song.

However, I do agree that something has gone wrong with parenting, and maybe the education system.

shakermaker · 23-08-2007, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Of course one could argue that "gangsta rap lyrics", violent video games, violent movies, violent news clips from battle zones, WWE, etc may have an effect on the young that it doesn't have on more mature people. That is: we know it is fiction and entertainment; the young may tend to confuse fiction and reality.

In that case the blame would go on the youths' psychological problems and/or parental responsibility, would it not?
Because obviously not all young people have this kind of confusion, as if they did everyone who played GTA or listened to 50 Cent would be off shooting people all over the gaff.

SPUGGIE J · 23-08-2007, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

very safe to say spug,like Eric says there are no " Easy Answers" the only place i can envisage to start is the source i.e.(upbringing) cos until respect and discipline is taught- Forget It, its a hell of a long haul,but summats gotta happen.

Well a start would be to stop rapping em up in cotton wool and treating them like an endagered animals. Give an inch they take a mile comes to mind but in todays society its a case they will take a hundred. Parents cant keep them under control because the law and busy bodies stop parents from sorting it out!!!! Lets stop pussy footing around and if they want to behave like animals treat em like animals!!!!

Eric · 23-08-2007, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

In that case the blame would go on the youths' psychological problems and/or parental responsibility, would it not?
Because obviously not all young people have this kind of confusion, as if they did everyone who played GTA or listened to 50 Cent would be off shooting people all over the gaff.

I don't think it is really a simple equation: hear song ... kill someone. But I do think that the confusion is there. More like a confusion of mixed messages: they get one set of messages from parents (most parents anyway) and another from assorted media. I don't think we should forget the internal messages either. All who are not suffering from some sort of mental/psychological condition know what is right and what is wrong. And I don't believe that it is up to governments to solve the problem. Even a good government couldn't do it. It is up to the parents. Govts should only interfere with parenting in extreme cases of provable abuse. They can go a long way in restricting access to firearms and access to the nastier drugs. But my parents and my grandparents passed their values on to me; and a lot of them stuck. I may not have turned out the way the wanted: but at least (I believe) I know what is right and what is not. If they could do that sort of things back in the bleak days of the late 40s and early 50s when just putting food on the table was tough enough, surely it can still be done today

Here comes my optimism and my idealism; time to go.

shakermaker · 23-08-2007, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Here comes my optimism and my idealism; time to go.

It's a nice idea Eric. A good one if parents had the morals from which to teach.
But with benefit mongers & compo culture in the UK forever on the rise, these type of parents are void of values to teach children!